If you're willing to go Full Nazi on those trolls, you might point out all the Jews who learned the fine art of rocket construction under the guidance of Dr. Wernher Von Braun.
The one consistent point I've seen from the beginning of the anti-woke movement is that the supremely delicate feelings of White people MUST be protected. It pains them to think that racism existed, or still exists. It tortures them to think that they're the problem. BUT . . . they insist on their right to be racist! Thus, we must teach the schoolkids that those darkies deserved every bit of it, and hey! it was actually good for them!
If you can declare that women don’t have legal control of their bodies when it comes to reproduction, why not add that slaves - who had no control of their bodies at all - benefited from their enslavement? You might almost think that pseudoconservative “intellectuals” are building a case for the eradication of freedom in favor of fascism.
It's been more than 9 months since the repeal of Roe v. Wade, I assume somewhere they are sharing the stories from women who are SO glad they were prevented from having an abortion.
Jul 25, 2023·edited Jul 25, 2023Liked by Roy Edroso
Gosh, if only we had a small army of desperate people parked just over our southern border eager to get in and do any work they can find. But, seeing none, we have no choice but to turn white women into baby-o-matics.
Pretty much all of it. It's the 1920s, eugenics, and "Fitter (White) Families" all over again. Only thing missing is the Klan marching rank by rank down Pennsylvania Avenue in DC (which they did 98 years ago next month).
The slaves benefited from slavery? Who knew! And they made money from the skills so graciously bestowed upon them by their kindly masters, who always had the slaves’ best interests at heart. Huh. And the owners sired innumerable progeny with their female chattel, through totally consensual intimacy, thereby increasing the number of children who would avail themselves of the benefits of indentured servitude!
It is high time to demand reparations for the descendants of slave owners. We can later discuss reparations for the Caucasians who were harmed by demonic residents of the former slave sectors while they were merely attempting to keep the peace there.
As a thought experiment: let’s say that, even if the claims of the slavery apologists were true, and the history of black folks and former slaves begins at the end of the Civil War and we can’t consider the damage caused by slavery or it would hurt white folks feelings: what do you find in the law codes of Florida, and the other Confederate states, and what is the actual history of the use of those laws on the former slaves?
I know you’ll find a vast attempt at suppression (as the emancipated weren’t view as fully human) keeping those folks in a subordinate and inferior condition: racist to its core. If we only consider the Jim Crow era, the lynchings, the white pogroms (Rosewood FL is an exemplar: like Tulsa or Forsyth Co GA, and the other “ethnic cleansings” in Union and Towns County GA: some of which my ancestors seem to have inflicted…), the whole “we must not let the Black man over the White man” (as I was told by a county worker in Gilmer Co GA about that “dang Oblama” {sic} in '08), the whole social move that revenged the Confederacy’s loss on the slave they couldn’t own anymore…
Start at any point and justify the disparate treatment. It’s indefensible.
We see how well even the present syllabi deals with the history of civil rights and the Black experience in that I'm likely not unique in never having heard of those incidents.
Even worse vis a vis Florida’s Candide approach of seeing only the good in chattel slavery is the operative assumption that Africans had no relevant prior experience. That is, the working assumption that… you know, it’s difficult for me to continue this line. But Florida’s implied life of a slave in their homeland is beyond disgusting.
That's a good point. And it's something a lot of white people, even enlightened ones, have to think about for a second, because their minds will flash to pictures of colonial blacks working at a forge like in old history books, a picture of industry and order, and only if they stick with it remember that they were forced to do so and could not offer their services in the market for their own gain -- in other words THEY WERE SLAVES.
Given the era, it would be interesting (if possible) to see a Venn diagram of how much Africans knew as opposed to what they were taught. (Also, if the cracker-taught skills were so great, why sharecropping?)
FWIW: My thinking along those lines follows from readings of Gerald Horne’s history of slavery leading up to 1776 and “The Dawn of Everything” where the theme is that humans prior to the written history* or so were pretty capable so by ca. the 17th century, can’t assume that Africans weren’t so unskilled when “brought” here. A related thing I stumbled across was Thom Hartmann’s book re how much the founders were influenced by the political practices of the indigenous people.
Really, the only decent histories come a Marxist POV to one degree or another.
Clearly the white folks enslaved the black folks because the white folks were incapable, incompetent wankers who couldn't compete in a real economy on their own wits thus requiring application of their only apparent skills – deployment of guns 'n whips – to the folks whose skin was a different shade...
Actually, that’s a good point: what *did* the slave owners do when slaves freed them from some work, specially on the plantations? Of course, it was different in cities.
My understanding is that it freed them up to talk endlessly about slaves, about acquiring more, about who had the most, about how to discipline them, how to get the most work out of them with the least expense, how to sell and resell them most advantageously, how to make sure the system lasted forever.
It's true that some (many?) slaveholders who originally acquired slaves to work their land found that the business of producing and selling slaves was far more lucrative.
The White Heritage Racist trope is “we took these black savages from the jungle, and they should thank us for making them Christians.” Not acknowledging the cultures and nations slaves came from, but reducing them all to “savages” rhetorically is the foundation of this lie of racism.
They they'll tell you, because Africans enslaved and sold each other it was somehow ok.
Makes me think of when explorers discovered Great Zimbabwe and decided it HAD to have been built by White folks because yadda yadda ignorant savages. 🙄
Not to mention slaves brought here who had many skills that were of no use to their owners, and were instead "taught" the "skill" of picking cotton, and doomed to a lifetime of it.
The skill of feeding yourself, your family and your community sustainably from the natural resources available has always been tragically under-valued.
There are numerous accounts of South Carolina slave owners complaining about the high prices for slaves *who had previous knowledge of rice and indigo cultivation*. Knowledge they brought with them from Africa, specifically Benin.
Rice cultivation is hard and dangerous work; a good deal of engineering is involved. This doesn't even factor in the danger of malaria in those regions. (Periodic reminder that sickle-cell anemia, which is endemic in certain African-American populations, developed to counter malaria.)
The bottom line is accurate history exists everything discussed in this thread. It’s just, at risk of gross understatement, it’s well hidden from nearly everyone.
And again stating the obvious, pretty much those who know found that recipient of skills yet more disgusting.
It's not all Sweet watermelon and buckwheat cake then.
I ran across a critical reappraisal of. swear to God, ,the movie " Mandingo" Now Mandingo is a vile degrading ,
Disgusting film. Probably the worst ever made by a major studio, with a decent director and major stars. .It was a notoriously popular bestseller
about life on a plantation that bred slaves for the market. The film was universally panned.
The point of the revisionist critics is that is probably the most accurate depiction of slavery ever put on film . The film was vile, ugly. Brutal and disgusting and dehumanizing.A lot like slavery you think about it. Certainly more accurate than Gone With the Wind.
Of course, when you factor in
the author's and the filmmaker' s profit motive
they come across as just some more corrupt white people trying to make money
off of slavery. If you think about it.
I watched a trailer and what struck me was really how accurate everything looked.
Everyone was dirty and covered with sweat. They looked like they stank. debauched. Everything was run down , Falconhurst, the plantation is the Anti- Tara.
The female lead, Susan George, is the anti Scarlett. She needs a shower. I believe she,'s missing teeth.
The director, Richard Fleisher
made a lot of movies ! 20000 Leagues Under the Sea, Fantastic VoyGe, Boston Strangler, The Narrow Margin ( great little noir film)
Doctor Dolittle. ( Rex Harrison) tons more ,- Soylent Green- Guy knew how to make movies. From the trailer. , Mandingo looks- authentic.
Yes, as Emma and Matt pointed out on a recent Majority Report, this offensive BS about slaves *benefitting* from slavery is just another version of slavery being a “civilizing influence” on the enslaved people.
Jul 25, 2023·edited Jul 25, 2023Liked by Roy Edroso
Yeah, I've heard that line, "Weren't they lucky we stole their ancestors out of Africa?" more than once, in connection with some highly-paid African-American athlete or entertainer. Said as a joke, of course, because that's how we (mostly) do our racism these days (naturally, some folks chafe at always having to pretend they're joking about it.)
Good, but bleak(!) read. I was gifted Huck Finn when I was in Grade 6. This is not a story that needs defending by or from anyone.
I'm not American, but I think I'm allowed to be offended by what's happening there, or anywhere.
I get what you're saying about the... endgame(?). I see the same thing (oligarchs or corporations, less clear!). Unfortunately for us, we don't have the luxury of pinning it all on a Soros-like evil, the Illuminati, or some other bullshit. Our fight isn't against "evil." It's against fucking stupidity itself. And we should despair.
Insightful analysis. But wait! There's more! Consider now and get more than the simple brain rush of antagonism and owning your political opposites!
When I was in junior high, early adolescence, I used to take up arguments on the wrong side with utter sincerity. I did not believe what I was saying, but I enjoyed acting as if I did. Enjoyed is perhaps the wrong word. I understood it even then as a ploy, a form of teasing without negative consequences. It garnered attention, and provided also a means of controlling a conversation.
The idiots you described are "full-growed" and ought to know better. They are getting high on their own supply of the bigger lie by giving the lie. Why? Because they like playing these roles. It is masturbatory joy to them. This is how I would confront them. I would say outright they might as well just unzip and jack off in front of their audience.
I wonder if their writing ever attracts the kind of attention they want. And what is that? What kind of attention do they want?
As a young teen, I got more than one girl to engage in prolonged arguments with me and I did eventually have sex years later with one of them. But I'm still not sure that was what I intended. It certainly wasn't a conscious plan.
From strange sources comes personal insight. This is my method. This is why I can see my own shadow without fear or disgust.
Yeah, I think this gets more to the actual motive, they do this shit because IT FEELS GOOD. Do they really expect a roomful of middle-schoolers to be convinced of this? Maybe in some 21st century sundown town, but in any normal classroom this shit won't fly. But I don't think they really care, or have even thought it through that far.
Similarly I have been wondering what Greg Gutfeld was thinking a day ago when he made his Holocaust comments. If you missed it, in reply to the idea of slaves learning skills, he said the Holocaust served a similar purpose for the Jews: those who survived did so by making themselves useful in the death camps. It was gobsmacking.
All a sensible person can do is wonder why. Adolescent glee in saying something utterly wrong, trying for attention by being the biggest crazyman. He simply didn't outgrow it. Of course, as an adult it makes him a genuine Nazi. And a network airing it becomes a network that advances Nazism. Those are both facts. What motivates him is guesswork, and I don't actually care, I suppose.
Funnily, last night I watched the Soviet war movie Come and See (I got a Criterion subscription for Christmas, so I'm becoming all kinds of cultured) -- and it felt so real in the way the Nazis went about their massacreeing in chaos and glee, clowning and laughing. A decade ago my vision of them was orderly, machinelike in their inhumanity. But these days I see the clown aspect. They think they're funny and nothing is real except themselves. They're 14 forever.
Oddly, I draw some hope from this. If it's really all for the LULZ, then when they finally realize it's all just losing elections and going to prison from here on they might walk away from it in search of amusement elsewhere. Since no real principles motivate them, they're less able to withstand setbacks and hardships. The Freedom Riders these people ain't.
I am less sanguine because I think they do have one principle, which is: Never Lose. Rather than walk away from a game they don't even care about, they will blow it up so no one can have it. And laugh as they do so. "Hahaha -- suckers!"
The mind reels. Puts me in the mind of how British Conservatives and Protestants / pro-Union advocates (putting it mildly) painted the Catholics / Republicans as vicious animals during The Troubles in Northern Ireland across all media platforms and through simply vicious propaganda campaigns... with the British Government in lock step for decades, like they weren't acting in defense in any way and just wanted to kill cops and Unionists. They positioned cameras behind the lines to make it appear the B-Specials were being attacked for no reason, when the larger question was why were they there in the first place? Hope I'm not pushing any buttons with my observation. This current episode is so horrifying and mind-blowingly insane to me all I can make are correlations to help me process. I weep. How did we get here? << purely rhetorical question.
I picked up a batch of 60's era National Geographics off Ebay, and among the lot was a 1967 issue with a cover story on the mysterious land of Vietnam. Naturally, I was curious as to how the subject would be presented, and they didn't disappoint: The Viet Cong were treated as a malevolent force whose motives were just so darn INSCRUTABLE. Meanwhile, the Vietnamese are a simple people, absorbed in ancient traditions of ancestor worship and suchlike. Also, look at this fine new deep-harbor port we built for them in Danang!
Well, the Vietnamese army wouldn't be nearly so well-disciplined and effective if they hadn't been forced to fight all these wars to liberate themselves! We and the French deserve to share the credit for that.
Coincidentally, the kitchen furniture I just ordered from IKEA's Vietnamese exporter has instructions for assembly that consist entirely of line drawings and the words In Screw Table!
Jul 25, 2023·edited Jul 25, 2023Liked by Roy Edroso
Not sure there's any kind of strategy or long-term thinking in all of this, reactionaries react, it's just what they do. They see the coverage of the Tulsa race riot and think, "Well, they musta some SOMETHIN' to deserve that!" or they see honest portrayals of the living hell that was slavery and think, "C'mon, couldn't be all that bad!" Then you pack your boards of education with such people and it all comes out in writing. And then white, racist teachers (of which there are more than a few) get a chance to try "We done 'em a favor!" out in a classroom, based on their racist assumption that there's nothing worse than being an African in Africa. Naturally they'll scan the classroom for the presence of black faces and scale it back a bit if they see one (racist shit like this white people enjoy most when in the exclusive company of their own kind.)
One of the things that blows me away is the inability of conservatives to cross-reference their own most basic ideas. Like you are telling me slavery wasn't so bad... AND you're saying we should overthrow the government because taxes make us like slaves? Please settle on one! People cannot tolerate slavery or slavery is a sustainable lifestyle, just PICK ONE.
Exactly, what's that line that the old racist n' rich guy says In The Heat of the Night? "Like these orchids, the Negro, you see, requires special care and attention."
Jul 25, 2023·edited Jul 25, 2023Liked by Roy Edroso
As a kid growing up in suburban KY in the 50s I remember being told that slavery wasn't so bad, seeing as how slaves didn't have to worry about food, clothing, and shelter. Plus, as Mr. Newman so eloquently put it, "Won't have to run through the jungle and scuff up your feet." FWIW, I didn't believe a word of it. But now, it's back - same old shit in a brand new bag: Contented darkies happily learning a trade (sharecropping) on the plantation. What's next, state-sponsored minstrel shows?
There's faded Southern belles going around showing former plantation owners' mansions as we speak, saying how the slaves had it pretty darn good and many of them had caring, family-like environments to grow and thrive in... all seeded into genteel discussions about architecture, columns and period wallpapers.
Oof. I just remembered a time (about 25 years ago) when I visited my parents in Florida, and we visited an historic site (I've forgotten the name) and at one point I asked where the slave quarters would have been. *I swear I was not trying to provoke anyone*, I was just curious, and heck, why not ask, it's the New South, right? The young man directing the tour turned to me and nearly froze me with his ice-blue eyes. After a moment he said he believed they had been somewhere over yonder (i.e., behind the mansion, or maybe near the stables, why are you asking me this irrelevant stuff? Bygones!).
No doubt the old workers’ residences (which, frankly, lacked the expansive views and rustic charm of other parts of the property) were renovated to create the perfect setting for the bride and groom to have their “first look” photos taken!
Jul 25, 2023·edited Jul 25, 2023Liked by Roy Edroso
I understand their fixation on school curriculum a little better after reading the article below from Politico (And "I understand ___ better after reading Politico" is not a sentiment I often express.) My own ex-governor Scott Walker helpfully explains that elementary schools, high schools, colleges and universities, media and social media and "the culture" are all conspiring to push our youth away from the Republican party*. Naturally, they have no choice but to take control of ALL of these institutions if they are to survive.
*Did he leave anything out? Isn't this just saying "All of reality conspires against us!"
*Insert "No, it is the children who are wrong" meme here.
Worth noting that this is recognizable as a mild evolution of standard OG Lost Cause stuff, the kind of thing you hear from your southern relatives and in-laws all the time. DeSantis's team is playing to that audience. Racism of various kinds may be pervasive in the US, but the white south has a deep need for a story that exonerates their institutions and imaginary 'traditions'. The constitution of the CSA, the words of Calhoun and Stephens, the various declarations of secession --- these will not be read in southern schools any time soon.
I keep getting hung up on what's the point of this fan dance? Frankly, I think the idea they have a long-term plan to "re-legitimize" slavery is dubious, mostly because of the "long-term" part. Nothing else in the Republican Cinematic Universe has even a whiff of long-term thinking to it. All that's left is fan service, what my Catholic education used to call self-pleasuring. If it feels good, do it baby!
But perhaps I'm wrong, and they want to cover the childrens' minds with a protective layer of Bondo to ward off that Woke mind virus DeSantis has hung his career on. Given the level of intellectual rigor shown so far, that's plausible. Mind-bogglingly stupid, but plausible. No one who hasn't injected the Flavor-ade in their veins is fooled by any of this, and even if this plan "works", all you have is a bunch of poorly educated teenagers more isolated from the mainstream culture than they already are. Good for the country music industry, at least.
Also, I've seen others suggest that we've entered the Ghost Dance phase of the Republican party or of conservatism or of white supremacy. Which is a little too triumphalist for my tastes, but it does capture the idea that shit like this is done because it just feels right, do they really need any reason beyond that?
That was my schtick for a while, trying to square the circle of a firmly established politicial party embracing nihilism as an election strategy. Nihilism! Fuck me, Dude. All they had to do was stand still. The see-saw nature of the American electorate guaranteed they would hold power roughly 50% of the time. Republicans cash in and fuck up, Democrats clean up and lose. The trend held since Nixon with no end in sight, but the ratfuckers Nixon gifted the Party, then the Reagan heatstroke vision of a permanent Republican majority (you like me! You really like me!) was that first sweet perfect hit of heroin, then Obama drove them insane. Stating it baldly like that sounds crazy but (waves hands around) you know? A Republican Ghost Dance almost makes them sound rational, trying to conjure voters from the glorious past rather than warriors.
I hate how much of my brain-space is taken up with this question of what the fuck happened to the Republican party when it's not even my party and it sure sucked bad enough even before it's transformation to something much, much worse.
Doghouse Riley used to talk about their Ghost Dance phase. You might say that, because conservatism yet persists, he was wrong, but another way of seeing it is, they only exist in tiny redoubts (though the prestige media makes them look much bigger).
The only children that matter are THEIR children, who will never be forced to confront the uncomfortable situation of hearing something in school that's any different from what Granpappy woulda told you.
"Nothing else in the Republican Cinematic Universe has even a whiff of long-term thinking to it."
The pre-history of the U.S. conservative movement -- JBS, Rushdoony, all that -- will show you they've been working according to this template for a long time.
Yeah, i know. The Powell Memo, the Federalist Society, ALEC, PNAC, the list goes on. My favorite was Garner Ted Armstrong, who used to rant on his shows in the 70's about the imminent United States of Europe, foretold in Revelation as an early sign of the End Times. He may have been right. And those institutions are all still around, thinking they can ride the Orange Tiger, keep the Freedom Caucus distracted with dic pics and "investigations" while they pack the courts and work on gaming elections. But this long-term plan is close to completion. All that's left is to step over the line and nullify a Presidential election. The only difference between Trump and Cheney is she wants to do it "legally" while he does not give a fuck how its done, as long as he ends up President. The Republican elites think they can maintain deniability, since they have so far. If they get away with Dobbs, maybe they can, since there's a pressure valve there: if you have some money, you can send your daughter or mistress to a sane state for an abortion. For now. Virtually every plausible Republican candidate will sign a national abortion ban as President. The base has tasted blood, and they really like it, and the Party has shown that push comes to shove the base gets what it demands, damn the torpedoes. They have to cross the line or lose their base, and they've shown how low they'll sink to keep it.
“Fan dance” is excellent. And as they lean more into their overt racism, it reminds me of a quote from Remington Steele: “the dance was big; the fans weren’t.”
"The smarter conservative hustlers may dream bigger still — of a time when the message that slavery wasn’t so bad is so well-internalized that the kind of complaints now regularly expressed about greedy bosses and poor working conditions and inequity will, like racism, be rendered incomprehensible, even among white people."
As a former union organizer, I know the idea that you should just shut up and stop complaining and just be glad you've got a job, ANY job, is a tool that white people have been using for generations to mildly accept their place in a system of wage-slavery. Not really any need to bring in the other kind.
If you're willing to go Full Nazi on those trolls, you might point out all the Jews who learned the fine art of rocket construction under the guidance of Dr. Wernher Von Braun.
The one consistent point I've seen from the beginning of the anti-woke movement is that the supremely delicate feelings of White people MUST be protected. It pains them to think that racism existed, or still exists. It tortures them to think that they're the problem. BUT . . . they insist on their right to be racist! Thus, we must teach the schoolkids that those darkies deserved every bit of it, and hey! it was actually good for them!
Why, even the lynchings were only done for the benefit of black folks! Our kin were just imparting wisdom about arboriculture, gravity, hemp...
Strange fruit.
Wren't they—not so very long ago—the same people who loved to tell the rest of us, "fuck your feelings"?
If you can declare that women don’t have legal control of their bodies when it comes to reproduction, why not add that slaves - who had no control of their bodies at all - benefited from their enslavement? You might almost think that pseudoconservative “intellectuals” are building a case for the eradication of freedom in favor of fascism.
It's been more than 9 months since the repeal of Roe v. Wade, I assume somewhere they are sharing the stories from women who are SO glad they were prevented from having an abortion.
I wonder how much anti-abortion sentiment is animated by racism, as in "We [White people] need to outbreed Them."
Yes, but OTOH, we can't discount the demand for cheap labor.
Gosh, if only we had a small army of desperate people parked just over our southern border eager to get in and do any work they can find. But, seeing none, we have no choice but to turn white women into baby-o-matics.
2 marks for -o-matics.
They do this. Conservative natalism, you will observe, is an all-white affair. https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/01/why-has-the-right-gone-natalist
Yeah. The absolute mass of fertile pale lady-bits are belong to us.
"Lebensborn," but in Redneck.
Pretty much all of it. It's the 1920s, eugenics, and "Fitter (White) Families" all over again. Only thing missing is the Klan marching rank by rank down Pennsylvania Avenue in DC (which they did 98 years ago next month).
I thought for sure the " CW"
stood for " Cock Womble" Turns out it's one word
(Cockwomble) so I couldn't use that. After a lot of thought, I've settled on
" Constantly Wrong" for it's unerring accuracy.
The Urban dictionary made me laugh " similar to asshat" Ha!
I was walking through production today and one of the German Iris they were working on was named " Dusky Challenger "
Everyone thought it sounded racist AF.
Nice essay!
Chimp Wanker
CW Post (as in Toasties).
Leave us not forget Postum.
Chilly Willy.
Bravo!
The slaves benefited from slavery? Who knew! And they made money from the skills so graciously bestowed upon them by their kindly masters, who always had the slaves’ best interests at heart. Huh. And the owners sired innumerable progeny with their female chattel, through totally consensual intimacy, thereby increasing the number of children who would avail themselves of the benefits of indentured servitude!
It is high time to demand reparations for the descendants of slave owners. We can later discuss reparations for the Caucasians who were harmed by demonic residents of the former slave sectors while they were merely attempting to keep the peace there.
The reparations bit? Done. Federal policy, in fact.
q.v. "white privilege"
As a thought experiment: let’s say that, even if the claims of the slavery apologists were true, and the history of black folks and former slaves begins at the end of the Civil War and we can’t consider the damage caused by slavery or it would hurt white folks feelings: what do you find in the law codes of Florida, and the other Confederate states, and what is the actual history of the use of those laws on the former slaves?
I know you’ll find a vast attempt at suppression (as the emancipated weren’t view as fully human) keeping those folks in a subordinate and inferior condition: racist to its core. If we only consider the Jim Crow era, the lynchings, the white pogroms (Rosewood FL is an exemplar: like Tulsa or Forsyth Co GA, and the other “ethnic cleansings” in Union and Towns County GA: some of which my ancestors seem to have inflicted…), the whole “we must not let the Black man over the White man” (as I was told by a county worker in Gilmer Co GA about that “dang Oblama” {sic} in '08), the whole social move that revenged the Confederacy’s loss on the slave they couldn’t own anymore…
Start at any point and justify the disparate treatment. It’s indefensible.
We see how well even the present syllabi deals with the history of civil rights and the Black experience in that I'm likely not unique in never having heard of those incidents.
[Trigger warning]
Even worse vis a vis Florida’s Candide approach of seeing only the good in chattel slavery is the operative assumption that Africans had no relevant prior experience. That is, the working assumption that… you know, it’s difficult for me to continue this line. But Florida’s implied life of a slave in their homeland is beyond disgusting.
That's a good point. And it's something a lot of white people, even enlightened ones, have to think about for a second, because their minds will flash to pictures of colonial blacks working at a forge like in old history books, a picture of industry and order, and only if they stick with it remember that they were forced to do so and could not offer their services in the market for their own gain -- in other words THEY WERE SLAVES.
Given the era, it would be interesting (if possible) to see a Venn diagram of how much Africans knew as opposed to what they were taught. (Also, if the cracker-taught skills were so great, why sharecropping?)
FWIW: My thinking along those lines follows from readings of Gerald Horne’s history of slavery leading up to 1776 and “The Dawn of Everything” where the theme is that humans prior to the written history* or so were pretty capable so by ca. the 17th century, can’t assume that Africans weren’t so unskilled when “brought” here. A related thing I stumbled across was Thom Hartmann’s book re how much the founders were influenced by the political practices of the indigenous people.
Really, the only decent histories come a Marxist POV to one degree or another.
Clearly the white folks enslaved the black folks because the white folks were incapable, incompetent wankers who couldn't compete in a real economy on their own wits thus requiring application of their only apparent skills – deployment of guns 'n whips – to the folks whose skin was a different shade...
Actually, that’s a good point: what *did* the slave owners do when slaves freed them from some work, specially on the plantations? Of course, it was different in cities.
My understanding is that it freed them up to talk endlessly about slaves, about acquiring more, about who had the most, about how to discipline them, how to get the most work out of them with the least expense, how to sell and resell them most advantageously, how to make sure the system lasted forever.
It's true that some (many?) slaveholders who originally acquired slaves to work their land found that the business of producing and selling slaves was far more lucrative.
For them, talking about making more money was their "work," and part thereof was to complain about, "Nobody wants to work anymore."
If you’ve ever seen museum exhibits of Benin culture, et al., you’ll know that Africans of that era were anything but unskilled.
The White Heritage Racist trope is “we took these black savages from the jungle, and they should thank us for making them Christians.” Not acknowledging the cultures and nations slaves came from, but reducing them all to “savages” rhetorically is the foundation of this lie of racism.
They they'll tell you, because Africans enslaved and sold each other it was somehow ok.
Makes me think of when explorers discovered Great Zimbabwe and decided it HAD to have been built by White folks because yadda yadda ignorant savages. 🙄
Oh, and that Jesus dude? Where was he from again? Charleston? Richmond?
Jim Caviezel was born in Mount Vernon, Washington. Any other questions?
Yeah, but through the eyes of white Xians.
Not to mention slaves brought here who had many skills that were of no use to their owners, and were instead "taught" the "skill" of picking cotton, and doomed to a lifetime of it.
The skill of feeding yourself, your family and your community sustainably from the natural resources available has always been tragically under-valued.
Sorry I'm late, but: South Carolina.
There are numerous accounts of South Carolina slave owners complaining about the high prices for slaves *who had previous knowledge of rice and indigo cultivation*. Knowledge they brought with them from Africa, specifically Benin.
Rice cultivation is hard and dangerous work; a good deal of engineering is involved. This doesn't even factor in the danger of malaria in those regions. (Periodic reminder that sickle-cell anemia, which is endemic in certain African-American populations, developed to counter malaria.)
So no, "unskilled" isn't really a thing.
The bottom line is accurate history exists everything discussed in this thread. It’s just, at risk of gross understatement, it’s well hidden from nearly everyone.
And again stating the obvious, pretty much those who know found that recipient of skills yet more disgusting.
It's not all Sweet watermelon and buckwheat cake then.
I ran across a critical reappraisal of. swear to God, ,the movie " Mandingo" Now Mandingo is a vile degrading ,
Disgusting film. Probably the worst ever made by a major studio, with a decent director and major stars. .It was a notoriously popular bestseller
about life on a plantation that bred slaves for the market. The film was universally panned.
The point of the revisionist critics is that is probably the most accurate depiction of slavery ever put on film . The film was vile, ugly. Brutal and disgusting and dehumanizing.A lot like slavery you think about it. Certainly more accurate than Gone With the Wind.
Of course, when you factor in
the author's and the filmmaker' s profit motive
they come across as just some more corrupt white people trying to make money
off of slavery. If you think about it.
I watched a trailer and what struck me was really how accurate everything looked.
Everyone was dirty and covered with sweat. They looked like they stank. debauched. Everything was run down , Falconhurst, the plantation is the Anti- Tara.
The female lead, Susan George, is the anti Scarlett. She needs a shower. I believe she,'s missing teeth.
The director, Richard Fleisher
made a lot of movies ! 20000 Leagues Under the Sea, Fantastic VoyGe, Boston Strangler, The Narrow Margin ( great little noir film)
Doctor Dolittle. ( Rex Harrison) tons more ,- Soylent Green- Guy knew how to make movies. From the trailer. , Mandingo looks- authentic.
Dude made Dr.Doolittle right before this.
Yes, as Emma and Matt pointed out on a recent Majority Report, this offensive BS about slaves *benefitting* from slavery is just another version of slavery being a “civilizing influence” on the enslaved people.
What happened to the snark, my god?
Extinct. The culture is now beyond snark's capacity.
Nonsense. The snark's out there somewhere. I'm going hunting.
Carry on, carry on, and report back.
Yeah, I've heard that line, "Weren't they lucky we stole their ancestors out of Africa?" more than once, in connection with some highly-paid African-American athlete or entertainer. Said as a joke, of course, because that's how we (mostly) do our racism these days (naturally, some folks chafe at always having to pretend they're joking about it.)
Dude, that line is ancient, just having another moment. Too, being owned forever is an awfully high price…
Every generation reinvents the same dimwitticisms.
Had I the liberty to assign points, I would assign several here.
I cannot liberate you – liberation comes from within.
Good, but bleak(!) read. I was gifted Huck Finn when I was in Grade 6. This is not a story that needs defending by or from anyone.
I'm not American, but I think I'm allowed to be offended by what's happening there, or anywhere.
I get what you're saying about the... endgame(?). I see the same thing (oligarchs or corporations, less clear!). Unfortunately for us, we don't have the luxury of pinning it all on a Soros-like evil, the Illuminati, or some other bullshit. Our fight isn't against "evil." It's against fucking stupidity itself. And we should despair.
Permanent free labor that can't complain and can be punished for even thinking about something else? Yeah, endgame.
Same people who natter endlessly about "there's no such thing as a free lunch" plotting endlessly to secure permanent free labor.
How about something like “Work will set you free.” Have we focus-group tested that?
Time to envision Cleavon Little givin' that side-eye...
No. Despair does no good. Never give up.
Insightful analysis. But wait! There's more! Consider now and get more than the simple brain rush of antagonism and owning your political opposites!
When I was in junior high, early adolescence, I used to take up arguments on the wrong side with utter sincerity. I did not believe what I was saying, but I enjoyed acting as if I did. Enjoyed is perhaps the wrong word. I understood it even then as a ploy, a form of teasing without negative consequences. It garnered attention, and provided also a means of controlling a conversation.
The idiots you described are "full-growed" and ought to know better. They are getting high on their own supply of the bigger lie by giving the lie. Why? Because they like playing these roles. It is masturbatory joy to them. This is how I would confront them. I would say outright they might as well just unzip and jack off in front of their audience.
I wonder if their writing ever attracts the kind of attention they want. And what is that? What kind of attention do they want?
As a young teen, I got more than one girl to engage in prolonged arguments with me and I did eventually have sex years later with one of them. But I'm still not sure that was what I intended. It certainly wasn't a conscious plan.
From strange sources comes personal insight. This is my method. This is why I can see my own shadow without fear or disgust.
This raises once again the issue of improper fetchins up, but with a twist.
Yeah, I think this gets more to the actual motive, they do this shit because IT FEELS GOOD. Do they really expect a roomful of middle-schoolers to be convinced of this? Maybe in some 21st century sundown town, but in any normal classroom this shit won't fly. But I don't think they really care, or have even thought it through that far.
"and I did eventually have sex years later with one of them" well then it was well worth the effort.
"You see, my dear, I play THE LONG GAME."
"As I was saying just a couple decades ago..."
Similarly I have been wondering what Greg Gutfeld was thinking a day ago when he made his Holocaust comments. If you missed it, in reply to the idea of slaves learning skills, he said the Holocaust served a similar purpose for the Jews: those who survived did so by making themselves useful in the death camps. It was gobsmacking.
All a sensible person can do is wonder why. Adolescent glee in saying something utterly wrong, trying for attention by being the biggest crazyman. He simply didn't outgrow it. Of course, as an adult it makes him a genuine Nazi. And a network airing it becomes a network that advances Nazism. Those are both facts. What motivates him is guesswork, and I don't actually care, I suppose.
Funnily, last night I watched the Soviet war movie Come and See (I got a Criterion subscription for Christmas, so I'm becoming all kinds of cultured) -- and it felt so real in the way the Nazis went about their massacreeing in chaos and glee, clowning and laughing. A decade ago my vision of them was orderly, machinelike in their inhumanity. But these days I see the clown aspect. They think they're funny and nothing is real except themselves. They're 14 forever.
Oddly, I draw some hope from this. If it's really all for the LULZ, then when they finally realize it's all just losing elections and going to prison from here on they might walk away from it in search of amusement elsewhere. Since no real principles motivate them, they're less able to withstand setbacks and hardships. The Freedom Riders these people ain't.
Arbeit Macht Frei Riders
I am less sanguine because I think they do have one principle, which is: Never Lose. Rather than walk away from a game they don't even care about, they will blow it up so no one can have it. And laugh as they do so. "Hahaha -- suckers!"
"I have been wondering what Greg Gutfeld was thinking"
Objection, no evidence that Gutless is capable of thinking.
A very good film. I have to watch it - Come and See - again! That kid's face with the gun to his head!
The mind reels. Puts me in the mind of how British Conservatives and Protestants / pro-Union advocates (putting it mildly) painted the Catholics / Republicans as vicious animals during The Troubles in Northern Ireland across all media platforms and through simply vicious propaganda campaigns... with the British Government in lock step for decades, like they weren't acting in defense in any way and just wanted to kill cops and Unionists. They positioned cameras behind the lines to make it appear the B-Specials were being attacked for no reason, when the larger question was why were they there in the first place? Hope I'm not pushing any buttons with my observation. This current episode is so horrifying and mind-blowingly insane to me all I can make are correlations to help me process. I weep. How did we get here? << purely rhetorical question.
I picked up a batch of 60's era National Geographics off Ebay, and among the lot was a 1967 issue with a cover story on the mysterious land of Vietnam. Naturally, I was curious as to how the subject would be presented, and they didn't disappoint: The Viet Cong were treated as a malevolent force whose motives were just so darn INSCRUTABLE. Meanwhile, the Vietnamese are a simple people, absorbed in ancient traditions of ancestor worship and suchlike. Also, look at this fine new deep-harbor port we built for them in Danang!
Jeebus wept.
I'm sure there are some rightwingers out there trying to make the point that the Vietnam War was good for them. Look how successful they are now!
Well, the Vietnamese army wouldn't be nearly so well-disciplined and effective if they hadn't been forced to fight all these wars to liberate themselves! We and the French deserve to share the credit for that.
Once Elon taught them everything they needed to know about tunnel construction (bet THAT was boring!) they were good to go.
Coincidentally, the kitchen furniture I just ordered from IKEA's Vietnamese exporter has instructions for assembly that consist entirely of line drawings and the words In Screw Table!
"the words In Screw Table!"
You are donating your brain to science, right?
I've been donating bits of myself to medical science for decades now. Installment plan.
"Hope I'm not pushing any buttons with my observation" Not at all! We know HMG hated it when the wogs (of any nation) fought back.
Not sure there's any kind of strategy or long-term thinking in all of this, reactionaries react, it's just what they do. They see the coverage of the Tulsa race riot and think, "Well, they musta some SOMETHIN' to deserve that!" or they see honest portrayals of the living hell that was slavery and think, "C'mon, couldn't be all that bad!" Then you pack your boards of education with such people and it all comes out in writing. And then white, racist teachers (of which there are more than a few) get a chance to try "We done 'em a favor!" out in a classroom, based on their racist assumption that there's nothing worse than being an African in Africa. Naturally they'll scan the classroom for the presence of black faces and scale it back a bit if they see one (racist shit like this white people enjoy most when in the exclusive company of their own kind.)
One of the things that blows me away is the inability of conservatives to cross-reference their own most basic ideas. Like you are telling me slavery wasn't so bad... AND you're saying we should overthrow the government because taxes make us like slaves? Please settle on one! People cannot tolerate slavery or slavery is a sustainable lifestyle, just PICK ONE.
It's all very simple, really. Slavery is BAD for US, but GOOD for THEM.
Exactly, what's that line that the old racist n' rich guy says In The Heat of the Night? "Like these orchids, the Negro, you see, requires special care and attention."
SLAP!
"You saw it!" "I did"
"What are you going to do about it?" "I don't know!"
Pure Racism is the magic dust that squares the circle, that removes all contradictions, without it none of their ideas fit.
As a kid growing up in suburban KY in the 50s I remember being told that slavery wasn't so bad, seeing as how slaves didn't have to worry about food, clothing, and shelter. Plus, as Mr. Newman so eloquently put it, "Won't have to run through the jungle and scuff up your feet." FWIW, I didn't believe a word of it. But now, it's back - same old shit in a brand new bag: Contented darkies happily learning a trade (sharecropping) on the plantation. What's next, state-sponsored minstrel shows?
I've been expecting the GOP to bust out publicly at some point with the "N" word since 2008, but this 2+2=5 bullshit is SO much more insidious.
There's faded Southern belles going around showing former plantation owners' mansions as we speak, saying how the slaves had it pretty darn good and many of them had caring, family-like environments to grow and thrive in... all seeded into genteel discussions about architecture, columns and period wallpapers.
And those lies are doubly effective when their racist visitors consult their imaginations for How Black People Live Today.
Oof. I just remembered a time (about 25 years ago) when I visited my parents in Florida, and we visited an historic site (I've forgotten the name) and at one point I asked where the slave quarters would have been. *I swear I was not trying to provoke anyone*, I was just curious, and heck, why not ask, it's the New South, right? The young man directing the tour turned to me and nearly froze me with his ice-blue eyes. After a moment he said he believed they had been somewhere over yonder (i.e., behind the mansion, or maybe near the stables, why are you asking me this irrelevant stuff? Bygones!).
Oof back atcha.
No doubt the old workers’ residences (which, frankly, lacked the expansive views and rustic charm of other parts of the property) were renovated to create the perfect setting for the bride and groom to have their “first look” photos taken!
I understand their fixation on school curriculum a little better after reading the article below from Politico (And "I understand ___ better after reading Politico" is not a sentiment I often express.) My own ex-governor Scott Walker helpfully explains that elementary schools, high schools, colleges and universities, media and social media and "the culture" are all conspiring to push our youth away from the Republican party*. Naturally, they have no choice but to take control of ALL of these institutions if they are to survive.
*Did he leave anything out? Isn't this just saying "All of reality conspires against us!"
*Insert "No, it is the children who are wrong" meme here.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/21/gop-college-towns-00106974
Worth noting that this is recognizable as a mild evolution of standard OG Lost Cause stuff, the kind of thing you hear from your southern relatives and in-laws all the time. DeSantis's team is playing to that audience. Racism of various kinds may be pervasive in the US, but the white south has a deep need for a story that exonerates their institutions and imaginary 'traditions'. The constitution of the CSA, the words of Calhoun and Stephens, the various declarations of secession --- these will not be read in southern schools any time soon.
I keep getting hung up on what's the point of this fan dance? Frankly, I think the idea they have a long-term plan to "re-legitimize" slavery is dubious, mostly because of the "long-term" part. Nothing else in the Republican Cinematic Universe has even a whiff of long-term thinking to it. All that's left is fan service, what my Catholic education used to call self-pleasuring. If it feels good, do it baby!
But perhaps I'm wrong, and they want to cover the childrens' minds with a protective layer of Bondo to ward off that Woke mind virus DeSantis has hung his career on. Given the level of intellectual rigor shown so far, that's plausible. Mind-bogglingly stupid, but plausible. No one who hasn't injected the Flavor-ade in their veins is fooled by any of this, and even if this plan "works", all you have is a bunch of poorly educated teenagers more isolated from the mainstream culture than they already are. Good for the country music industry, at least.
Will it work? I dunno, maybe need to test-market it first. I know, Try That In A Small Town.
Rehashtagged
I'm gonna milk that joke for all its worth, or til my fingers get tired.
Til it's udderly wrung out!
Also, I've seen others suggest that we've entered the Ghost Dance phase of the Republican party or of conservatism or of white supremacy. Which is a little too triumphalist for my tastes, but it does capture the idea that shit like this is done because it just feels right, do they really need any reason beyond that?
That was my schtick for a while, trying to square the circle of a firmly established politicial party embracing nihilism as an election strategy. Nihilism! Fuck me, Dude. All they had to do was stand still. The see-saw nature of the American electorate guaranteed they would hold power roughly 50% of the time. Republicans cash in and fuck up, Democrats clean up and lose. The trend held since Nixon with no end in sight, but the ratfuckers Nixon gifted the Party, then the Reagan heatstroke vision of a permanent Republican majority (you like me! You really like me!) was that first sweet perfect hit of heroin, then Obama drove them insane. Stating it baldly like that sounds crazy but (waves hands around) you know? A Republican Ghost Dance almost makes them sound rational, trying to conjure voters from the glorious past rather than warriors.
I hate how much of my brain-space is taken up with this question of what the fuck happened to the Republican party when it's not even my party and it sure sucked bad enough even before it's transformation to something much, much worse.
2 marks for the hand-waving. Spot on.
Doghouse Riley used to talk about their Ghost Dance phase. You might say that, because conservatism yet persists, he was wrong, but another way of seeing it is, they only exist in tiny redoubts (though the prestige media makes them look much bigger).
I am Dane County, Destroyer of Republicans!
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/21/gop-college-towns-00106974
Sorry, I just enjoyed that article so damn much, I've read it twice already and may read it every morning til election day.
Oh Doghouse! It will be ten years this Thursday.
I miss Doghouse, man. Could be eloquent and cantankerous.
"Nothing matters, history is stupid, everybody lies, don't bother, why vote - they're all the same."
If I had a nickel... oy vey
"Why vote?" Good question, maybe you shouldn't? You know the Italian spy satellite's gonna steal your vote anyway, I wouldn't bother if I was you.
I'm guessing they're hoping it'll work on a susceptible minority and those kids will continue the Restore The Hierarchy project in the future.
The only children that matter are THEIR children, who will never be forced to confront the uncomfortable situation of hearing something in school that's any different from what Granpappy woulda told you.
Quite possibly they soon won't ever get the chance again to hear anything in school...anything at all...
"Nothing else in the Republican Cinematic Universe has even a whiff of long-term thinking to it."
The pre-history of the U.S. conservative movement -- JBS, Rushdoony, all that -- will show you they've been working according to this template for a long time.
Yeah, i know. The Powell Memo, the Federalist Society, ALEC, PNAC, the list goes on. My favorite was Garner Ted Armstrong, who used to rant on his shows in the 70's about the imminent United States of Europe, foretold in Revelation as an early sign of the End Times. He may have been right. And those institutions are all still around, thinking they can ride the Orange Tiger, keep the Freedom Caucus distracted with dic pics and "investigations" while they pack the courts and work on gaming elections. But this long-term plan is close to completion. All that's left is to step over the line and nullify a Presidential election. The only difference between Trump and Cheney is she wants to do it "legally" while he does not give a fuck how its done, as long as he ends up President. The Republican elites think they can maintain deniability, since they have so far. If they get away with Dobbs, maybe they can, since there's a pressure valve there: if you have some money, you can send your daughter or mistress to a sane state for an abortion. For now. Virtually every plausible Republican candidate will sign a national abortion ban as President. The base has tasted blood, and they really like it, and the Party has shown that push comes to shove the base gets what it demands, damn the torpedoes. They have to cross the line or lose their base, and they've shown how low they'll sink to keep it.
All true enough. Take solace they will all die eventually.
“Fan dance” is excellent. And as they lean more into their overt racism, it reminds me of a quote from Remington Steele: “the dance was big; the fans weren’t.”
They do cling to the "long term" that defines the time between 1619 and now.
It’s a racial provocation to say the numbers one, six, nine, and one that order.
1619 - 1865, i.e., "The Good Years".
"The smarter conservative hustlers may dream bigger still — of a time when the message that slavery wasn’t so bad is so well-internalized that the kind of complaints now regularly expressed about greedy bosses and poor working conditions and inequity will, like racism, be rendered incomprehensible, even among white people."
As a former union organizer, I know the idea that you should just shut up and stop complaining and just be glad you've got a job, ANY job, is a tool that white people have been using for generations to mildly accept their place in a system of wage-slavery. Not really any need to bring in the other kind.
Teamsters say We gotcha covered, pal. As long as you full time.