Well, they could always go to either Madison or Monroe's place, I forget which, which has had a big shake up when the historians tried to do something like that and were quashed by the money people.
Not surprising conservatives would reframe merely stating facts – Jefferson fathered children with an enslaved woman – as “propaganda.” It’s always, always projection. They are busy wielding their own propaganda, with GOP politicians claiming 10 to 13 year old girls can consent to sex, therefore are responsible for their “choices” and shouldn’t be allowed to have an abortion, or that police are justified for pumping dozens of bullets into a Black man who was unarmed and fleeing.
So since they don’t care about facts or truth but only care about shaping a narrative, everything that doesn’t fit their narrative becomes de facto “propaganda.”
"Jefferson’s life story is full of thorny contradictions. The world’s foremost proponent of liberty, who wrote the immortal words, 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,' was nonetheless a committed slave owner until his death in 1826.
That has made him a prime target for the left. "
So by this implication, the Right is pro-slavery. (This has been, etc.)
Go visit, Roy — Monticello is well worth the trip. It is a beautiful and fascinating place, full of neat stuff. I was last there several years ago, and it was interesting to see how the narrative was changing. When I was a kid it was strictly a Great Man talk, e.g., "Jefferson invented the dumbwaiter so dinners with the Madisons wouldn't be interrupted by the *servants*." The integration (heh heh) of slavery into the story has made it much richer and more complex, and has greatly expanded the historicity of the place. Jefferson designed the house so kitchen, pantries and other working rooms were all on a basement level that could be kept hidden from visitors; now they've been restored and are part of the tour; as have outbuildings where various workshops were and gardens where food was grown. The restorations give a much clearer picture of how an 18th c. plantation actually worked, and how complex it was.
However, Jefferson descendants from the wrong side of the blanket are still kept out of the family cemetery.
White people feeling "sad and demoralized" is the real Original Sin. Seems to me that you can still say the guy was smart and cosmopolitan and thought a lot of thoughts that he wrote down, and also acknowledge the people who made it possible for him to run around the world and think thoughts and write them down. They will concede he was "complex," but don't want you to know how.
Well, there are histories and then there are histories. Some honest, some not so, and some, like what's taught to the youth, like all fictions and fantasies.
As for Jefferson, what a rich subject for enlightenment on the founding of the nation up to its present state.
His life itself raises the question of what did the Founding Fathers mean in their rhetoric and how much was performative and bullshit? Was everything in the Constitution and Bill of Rights meant to be taken seriously or, again, performative? I mean, not just no direct election of POTUS but no uniform rules for elections of electors. And so on and so forth.
Then there's his love of the yeoman, the concept still at the heart of conservatism -- the fully self-sufficient man who has no need for government. Who is now being hammered into extinction by rapacious capitalism which to say by a powerful, unchecked right wind. Dunno how much this can be attributed to TJ but one can believe that he'd call for some watering the tree of liberty with the blood of capitalists. Or maybe not.
And his relationship with Hemmings. Of course, the dynamic was nothing new but a Founder who took full advantage of his position of power to put the woman in a position of zero agency. I mean, classic.
As for the shitheads and snowflakes upset over woeness at Monticello, well, I've zero respect for anyone with disrespect for the idea of facts; nothing wrong with a 360º picture of plantation life. And anyone sad over having the balloons of their fantasies popped by truths, well, as ever fuck their feelings.
Meanwhile...
Two things of interest from the Times:
Query: Might Pamela Paul b actually writing a humor column? I mean, this:
TBH, the Times frequently pisses me off but because of pieces like the second one there, can't really make me hate it. Comes close and then promotes something good.
Hemmings, Hawings, Woke & Bad is NOT my new new LLP name, only because, irrespective of the potential marketing power of the brand, I'd just rather die.
I read Henry Wiencek's Master Of The Mountain and was convinced that Jefferson was some sort of sociopath. He flaunted his illegitimate children in front of his legitimate daughter and when she confronted him about it (several times) only smiled enigmatically. Rather than conceal his slave children as many planters did, he flaunted them, having one son who was his mirror, polarized image serve guests at dinner so he could watch their jaws drop in amazement. Jefferson came across as an extremely unpleasant piece of work, to say the least.
Jul 11, 2022·edited Jul 11, 2022Liked by Roy Edroso
Hmm, d’ya think they noticed that Jefferson rewrote the Bible to suit his own version of Deism? Anyway, I’ve come to accept that the parts of the Constitution written to appease the slave owners are now the framework for the American fascism we’re living through. Jefferson isn’t solely to blame for that, of course, but I don’t imagine he made any effort to think through its implications for the future of the country he claimed he wanted to be an inspirational model of the Enlightenment for the rest of the world.
Jul 11, 2022·edited Jul 11, 2022Liked by Roy Edroso
Just terrific Roy.
Maybe you can make bad things go away by putting your fingers in your ears and going 'La La LA- that never happened"
over and over. I wonder if they do that when the car breaks down or the toilet leaks or their kid gets cancer. Kinda like their organized religion.
Having grown up in and amongst these people here in rural Southwest Ohio ( like Alabama with shitty winters) I am pretty sure no small percentage of the conservative visitors to Monticello are gratified to find out PaPaw Liberty knew the white man's place in the social order
(You should have heard him just about midnight.) and founded this country to preserve that order .
Some years ago, a friend who is a retired professor of American history, visited Monticello, where they referred to the slaves as "servants". He loudly objected.
In that letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush which supplies the quote "I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" Jefferson opens with the fond wish that "the yellow fever will discourage the growth of great cities in our nation; & I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man." I wonder why the Republicans don't ditch that Woke Anti-Slaver Lincoln and rename themselves "The Party of Jefferson."
Well, they could always go to either Madison or Monroe's place, I forget which, which has had a big shake up when the historians tried to do something like that and were quashed by the money people.
Not surprising conservatives would reframe merely stating facts – Jefferson fathered children with an enslaved woman – as “propaganda.” It’s always, always projection. They are busy wielding their own propaganda, with GOP politicians claiming 10 to 13 year old girls can consent to sex, therefore are responsible for their “choices” and shouldn’t be allowed to have an abortion, or that police are justified for pumping dozens of bullets into a Black man who was unarmed and fleeing.
So since they don’t care about facts or truth but only care about shaping a narrative, everything that doesn’t fit their narrative becomes de facto “propaganda.”
"Jefferson’s life story is full of thorny contradictions. The world’s foremost proponent of liberty, who wrote the immortal words, 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,' was nonetheless a committed slave owner until his death in 1826.
That has made him a prime target for the left. "
So by this implication, the Right is pro-slavery. (This has been, etc.)
First they took away Dollywood & now Monticello — has anyone checked in on Colonial Williamsburg recently?
Go visit, Roy — Monticello is well worth the trip. It is a beautiful and fascinating place, full of neat stuff. I was last there several years ago, and it was interesting to see how the narrative was changing. When I was a kid it was strictly a Great Man talk, e.g., "Jefferson invented the dumbwaiter so dinners with the Madisons wouldn't be interrupted by the *servants*." The integration (heh heh) of slavery into the story has made it much richer and more complex, and has greatly expanded the historicity of the place. Jefferson designed the house so kitchen, pantries and other working rooms were all on a basement level that could be kept hidden from visitors; now they've been restored and are part of the tour; as have outbuildings where various workshops were and gardens where food was grown. The restorations give a much clearer picture of how an 18th c. plantation actually worked, and how complex it was.
However, Jefferson descendants from the wrong side of the blanket are still kept out of the family cemetery.
White people feeling "sad and demoralized" is the real Original Sin. Seems to me that you can still say the guy was smart and cosmopolitan and thought a lot of thoughts that he wrote down, and also acknowledge the people who made it possible for him to run around the world and think thoughts and write them down. They will concede he was "complex," but don't want you to know how.
Well, there are histories and then there are histories. Some honest, some not so, and some, like what's taught to the youth, like all fictions and fantasies.
As for Jefferson, what a rich subject for enlightenment on the founding of the nation up to its present state.
His life itself raises the question of what did the Founding Fathers mean in their rhetoric and how much was performative and bullshit? Was everything in the Constitution and Bill of Rights meant to be taken seriously or, again, performative? I mean, not just no direct election of POTUS but no uniform rules for elections of electors. And so on and so forth.
Then there's his love of the yeoman, the concept still at the heart of conservatism -- the fully self-sufficient man who has no need for government. Who is now being hammered into extinction by rapacious capitalism which to say by a powerful, unchecked right wind. Dunno how much this can be attributed to TJ but one can believe that he'd call for some watering the tree of liberty with the blood of capitalists. Or maybe not.
And his relationship with Hemmings. Of course, the dynamic was nothing new but a Founder who took full advantage of his position of power to put the woman in a position of zero agency. I mean, classic.
As for the shitheads and snowflakes upset over woeness at Monticello, well, I've zero respect for anyone with disrespect for the idea of facts; nothing wrong with a 360º picture of plantation life. And anyone sad over having the balloons of their fantasies popped by truths, well, as ever fuck their feelings.
Meanwhile...
Two things of interest from the Times:
Query: Might Pamela Paul b actually writing a humor column? I mean, this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/opinion/justice-john-roberts-supreme-court-retire.html
It's the kind of idea that cannot have a credible case supporting it. So: Parody or what?
And this page 1 story showing exactly how the nation collapses and how it's stopped:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/us/croydon-free-state-politics.html?searchResultPosition=1
TBH, the Times frequently pisses me off but because of pieces like the second one there, can't really make me hate it. Comes close and then promotes something good.
"When you think about it . . ."
There's your problem, right there.
Hemmings, Hawings, Woke & Bad is NOT my new new LLP name, only because, irrespective of the potential marketing power of the brand, I'd just rather die.
I read Henry Wiencek's Master Of The Mountain and was convinced that Jefferson was some sort of sociopath. He flaunted his illegitimate children in front of his legitimate daughter and when she confronted him about it (several times) only smiled enigmatically. Rather than conceal his slave children as many planters did, he flaunted them, having one son who was his mirror, polarized image serve guests at dinner so he could watch their jaws drop in amazement. Jefferson came across as an extremely unpleasant piece of work, to say the least.
Hmm, d’ya think they noticed that Jefferson rewrote the Bible to suit his own version of Deism? Anyway, I’ve come to accept that the parts of the Constitution written to appease the slave owners are now the framework for the American fascism we’re living through. Jefferson isn’t solely to blame for that, of course, but I don’t imagine he made any effort to think through its implications for the future of the country he claimed he wanted to be an inspirational model of the Enlightenment for the rest of the world.
Just terrific Roy.
Maybe you can make bad things go away by putting your fingers in your ears and going 'La La LA- that never happened"
over and over. I wonder if they do that when the car breaks down or the toilet leaks or their kid gets cancer. Kinda like their organized religion.
Having grown up in and amongst these people here in rural Southwest Ohio ( like Alabama with shitty winters) I am pretty sure no small percentage of the conservative visitors to Monticello are gratified to find out PaPaw Liberty knew the white man's place in the social order
(You should have heard him just about midnight.) and founded this country to preserve that order .
So Jefferson was a tinker, eh? Who knew he had Roma blood!
Some years ago, a friend who is a retired professor of American history, visited Monticello, where they referred to the slaves as "servants". He loudly objected.
In that letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush which supplies the quote "I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" Jefferson opens with the fond wish that "the yellow fever will discourage the growth of great cities in our nation; & I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man." I wonder why the Republicans don't ditch that Woke Anti-Slaver Lincoln and rename themselves "The Party of Jefferson."
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-32-02-0102
"what they had always believed about the Founders — that they were not only heroic but also godlike"
Jefferson was more of a Zeus than a Yahweh.