Even though I did not watch the debate, all reports about Harris's performance last night have simply cemented my belief that we need a Warren/Harris or Harris/Warren ticket. Both of them are extremely smart, extremely tough, extremely realistic, and extremely likely to cause Donald Trump to suffer a non-reversible sunset incident on stage during a debate. Even better, both of them would make fantastic presidents for the United States of America.
I watched the highlight reel and I was very happy to see Harris bloody Uncle Joe. The media was inching towards bestowing not just front-runner but coronation status on him, and somebody needed to shut that shit down.
Liz Warren is still my candidate, but Harris is extremely impressive. Even more than her spoken words, I like her swagger: it’s her world, you’re just living in it, and she’s starting to run out of patience with you. How well that attitude will sell in central Pennsylvania and rural Michigan when it’s coming from a black woman is an open question. But I refuse to get sucked into that quagmire and think the turnout she would inspire in Philly/Pittsburgh would override any lack of enthusiasm in Pennsyltucky.
I also think that while Pete Buttigieg is not going to be President in 2020, one day Pete Buttigieg is going to be President. He’s got plenty of time and a lot of skills.
The problem with Harris is as you said is that she is a cop and just a little more than what we finished the last 8 democratic years with although possibly a little more aggressive and possibly less neoliberal. I think that there was a point where Harris was a trial lawyer, and those skills transfer well to this kind of thing. Warren is just a pale imitation of Sanders.
Sorry to be starting a circular firing squad, but "Warren is just a pale imitation of Sanders"? Even if that were true, it would be a good thing, but pale imitations don't create the CFPB. Having said that, I would be thrilled to have either Warren or Sanders (or Harris) as President.
I'm flipping! I'm flopping! Harris was my click to pick -- she's more liberal as Senator than as AG, but as AG she wasn't bad! My buddy works big, important cases here in LA in the consumer protection division she goosed with budget and purpose, if not created, and she did do some good things in terms of criminal justice reform (but, no, not enough). Plus, she's been excellent on the Trump crime beat at Judiciary and we need a headline-seeking prosecutor running the clean up. But THEN, Warren stole my vote right away. I don't think I've ever changed my mind before a primary like this. However, since my thesis is that we either have to elect a woman President or we need to be disintegrated and end this hollow charade once and for all (no heightening the contradictions, I'm talking full liberal martyrdom, we'll party in the camps, or do something desperate and stupid), I've decided I don't care which of these very impressive, capable, smart women win. I'm all in for either of them.
On the merits, Liz/Harris. (Or Warren/Kamala. You make the call.) But a two woman team is playing with fire. So: Liz/Castro, with Harris as A.G. OR, Harris/Castro, with Liz at Treasury. See? I'm FLEXIBLE.
I have been ride or die for Warren for years, and liking the idea of Warren-Buttigieg. My impression of Harris was formed mainly by an interview she did with... Pod Save America? Across the whole hour she could not break out of sounding like a lawyer, and could not quit hedging when asked tough questions. I loved her as my senator -- but not bigger than that. Until last night. She really did cut Uncle Joe's throat, and it was stirring, like a murder in John Wick. No way she isn't a top-3 candidate in my book and (I'd hope) everyone's book this morning -- your other 2 might vary, but come on. I'm sending her $10.
Although... I am curious how she went over with my family (motto: "We hate Trump but don't you dare attack OUR NATION'S PRESIDENT [like we did nonstop in 2009-17]"). I can see them having a... different take.
Very authentic discussion, man. You give me some hope. Warren and Harris were seen as coming out ahead respectively in their packs. I had a chance just now to talk to my dad about it. I think they both exceeded the others because of a common set of factors. Both are women who have had to deal with social situations in which they get marginalized. They have to pay attention and know how to get a word in edgewise without coming off stupid. So they both knew how to read the complex situation and pipe up appropriately to take the spotlight effectively. Also, as you beautifully put it in terms of your own mom, they don't feel compelled to present calmly, demurely, because they have stuff to do and it's serious, and they don't have time to coddle your sorry country-club ass while getting their points across. Trump is beyond brash. He's crude and boorish, which some folks think means he's authentic. But I sense these two women have experience handling that kind of moron and can best him in a way that even reactionaries will respect. Leave me with my fantasies.
#ADOS needs to be on everyone's radar. Black leftist intellectuals are developing a very serious attitude about ID-hugging people of color wrapping themselves up in the legacy of segregation that they themselves did not actually experience. Literally every story Harris tells about herself falls apart under scrutiny, but lying when the media won't call you out on it is the new black. Pop #ADOS into your Twitter stream for some serious alt-analysis (and yes, provenance can be iffy). https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2019/06/28/more-than-gotcha-kamalas-busing-blunder/ and https://twitter.com/BreakingBrown/status/1144623479859437568 are good starts.
Just like Obama before her, Kamala Harris is Black, in case you didn't know that. But she's really not Black enough, so she's not really Black and that's why Black people shouldn't vote for her.
But she is Black, which is why White people shouldn't vote for her.
And for anyone on the fence, Harris isn't really African American because she's half Jamaican, which makes her a complete fake and a phony when it comes to being Black.
Yeah, all of this. This nonsense started last year when reparations talk started being bandied about again, and it was a way of determining who supposedly was and wasn't "eligible". Considering pretty much every African-American, African-Canadian and Afro-Caribbean *can* trace the reason they got here to slavery it's an argument without a lot of meaning. In
What? I mean I’m not following the whole argument you are trying to make. My post showed how, simultaneously, the same shit went out about Harris. I’m sure that there is a small sliver of African Americans who feel like a different kind of American black is crowding in on their reality — without really explaining why in any sensical way.
I was just trying to point to some different POVs. I actually look a lot like my avatar, so my opinion on this is not relevant. ADOS is not a small community, yet their views are routinely suppressed. These are the people who are always talking about reparations, a word most Americans had never heard before this year. There is also an enormous overlap between ADOS and 2016 Bernie supporters, and they are still very angry about the party erasing them two years ago. Feel free to think I'm a total douche, but if you actually care about winning, you'll look into ADOS more carefully. They're not Russians, just Americans angry that the media never sees them. And if you read something that says this is something new just invented by [fill in the blank], you're being bullshitted. Not new, not something tricksy.
Having people of color feel erased by erasing a woman of color is an interesting strategy. Again, I don’t understand their argument. I’m all in favor of reparations, I’ve been hearing all about it since TNC testified and there’s actually proof that Harris’ authenticity was being questioned by AstroTurf. It’s right there. I think it’s an unbelievable argument that a black American woman isn’t black American enough, but I guess that’s not my argument to make. It is, however something that requires some coherence which I don’t see or hear.
https://medium.com/@roderickshawngraham/reflections-on-the-ados-movement-a8f0355c7275 Not sure what you've been reading about ADOS, but this is a fairly objective overview of who they see themselves as being. Saying Harris being half Jamaican disqualifies her is harsh, but culturally she's Canadian as all hell and has deep-seated South Asian attitudes about the law and business. Surely you can see how African Americans might not feel as close to her as they would someone more like themselves, especially after eight years of Obama.
Oh HOLY FUCK. I went down the rabbit hole on ADOS as far as the Rev. William Barber and he says they are an anti-immigration front group funded by white xenophobes — which I confirmed through many, many sources. Yeah, so...
Thanks for that: obviously that hashtag has been trashed in the last day or so because earlier this week it reliably led to just ADOS activists who are mostly pretty obscure. So long as you're reading the activists themselves, I can't argue with your opinion. But if you're letting others explain ADOS to you....
I can't quite figure out why Uncle Joe was so little prepared for this inevitable clash. I remember how easily he dismantled Paul Ryan in the 2012 Veep debate (but then again Ryan has always been a media creation - talk about where's the beef). But he seems to have lost a lot of the old moxie he used to have. But I'm not too concerned really. His positions have always been way too neoliberal and disinclined to take it to the enemy (like the Turtle!).
I like the idea of a Warren/Harris ticket (or vice-versa) but I doubt seriously they would get along. It was tough enough for LBJ to take the Veep slot with JFK as president but back then the regional ticket balancing was more important than it is is now. But I could see a Harris/Inslee ticket or a Warren/Bennet ticket.
I think Biden feels like he’s owed. And if it isn’t paid off by the Oval Office, he wants the Steel Wheels Tour. One more time to get out there and hear the applause while still feeling like it’s not totally a revival act.
Her cop-excusing ways and 'creative' approach to getting convictions may help some suburban voters decide she's all right. 'You know they're harder on their own, the good ones on the Force.'
That pisses me off, but if it gets her, who isn't D.J.T., elected…well, that's how far degenerate times have degenerated me.
I know my Mom — an older white woman who lives in S. Carolina — is a fan of Harris. I like the idea of her facing off with Trump. Liz Warren has terrific policies and is warm and winning, but that whole DNA test debacle leaves me worried about her political instincts — and I've seen more than a few involved black people who hate her as a result, for cultural appropriation.
But it's a long time until the first primaries yet. Given how important the black vote is to the Dems, I think S.C. will be the most telling result.
Buttigieg has some very neoliberal instincts, but he speaks eloquently and I think would (at this point) make a fine veep.
Even though I did not watch the debate, all reports about Harris's performance last night have simply cemented my belief that we need a Warren/Harris or Harris/Warren ticket. Both of them are extremely smart, extremely tough, extremely realistic, and extremely likely to cause Donald Trump to suffer a non-reversible sunset incident on stage during a debate. Even better, both of them would make fantastic presidents for the United States of America.
So let the ladies take the lead!
I watched the highlight reel and I was very happy to see Harris bloody Uncle Joe. The media was inching towards bestowing not just front-runner but coronation status on him, and somebody needed to shut that shit down.
Liz Warren is still my candidate, but Harris is extremely impressive. Even more than her spoken words, I like her swagger: it’s her world, you’re just living in it, and she’s starting to run out of patience with you. How well that attitude will sell in central Pennsylvania and rural Michigan when it’s coming from a black woman is an open question. But I refuse to get sucked into that quagmire and think the turnout she would inspire in Philly/Pittsburgh would override any lack of enthusiasm in Pennsyltucky.
I also think that while Pete Buttigieg is not going to be President in 2020, one day Pete Buttigieg is going to be President. He’s got plenty of time and a lot of skills.
Norske regler!
The problem with Harris is as you said is that she is a cop and just a little more than what we finished the last 8 democratic years with although possibly a little more aggressive and possibly less neoliberal. I think that there was a point where Harris was a trial lawyer, and those skills transfer well to this kind of thing. Warren is just a pale imitation of Sanders.
Sorry to be starting a circular firing squad, but "Warren is just a pale imitation of Sanders"? Even if that were true, it would be a good thing, but pale imitations don't create the CFPB. Having said that, I would be thrilled to have either Warren or Sanders (or Harris) as President.
In this circular firing squad, I've got your back! CFPB FTW.
Jesus, if there's ever been a moment where we need at least ONE cop on our side, it's now.
That's a plus as far as I'm concerned.
CLOSING, BIDEN: I don't understand how any of this happened. If you don't, either, join me.
----Roy Edroso
MWAAA!
God bless the troops? Does anyone remember where we parked?
I'm flipping! I'm flopping! Harris was my click to pick -- she's more liberal as Senator than as AG, but as AG she wasn't bad! My buddy works big, important cases here in LA in the consumer protection division she goosed with budget and purpose, if not created, and she did do some good things in terms of criminal justice reform (but, no, not enough). Plus, she's been excellent on the Trump crime beat at Judiciary and we need a headline-seeking prosecutor running the clean up. But THEN, Warren stole my vote right away. I don't think I've ever changed my mind before a primary like this. However, since my thesis is that we either have to elect a woman President or we need to be disintegrated and end this hollow charade once and for all (no heightening the contradictions, I'm talking full liberal martyrdom, we'll party in the camps, or do something desperate and stupid), I've decided I don't care which of these very impressive, capable, smart women win. I'm all in for either of them.
Warren/Harris 2020!
On the merits, Liz/Harris. (Or Warren/Kamala. You make the call.) But a two woman team is playing with fire. So: Liz/Castro, with Harris as A.G. OR, Harris/Castro, with Liz at Treasury. See? I'm FLEXIBLE.
I have been ride or die for Warren for years, and liking the idea of Warren-Buttigieg. My impression of Harris was formed mainly by an interview she did with... Pod Save America? Across the whole hour she could not break out of sounding like a lawyer, and could not quit hedging when asked tough questions. I loved her as my senator -- but not bigger than that. Until last night. She really did cut Uncle Joe's throat, and it was stirring, like a murder in John Wick. No way she isn't a top-3 candidate in my book and (I'd hope) everyone's book this morning -- your other 2 might vary, but come on. I'm sending her $10.
Although... I am curious how she went over with my family (motto: "We hate Trump but don't you dare attack OUR NATION'S PRESIDENT [like we did nonstop in 2009-17]"). I can see them having a... different take.
Very authentic discussion, man. You give me some hope. Warren and Harris were seen as coming out ahead respectively in their packs. I had a chance just now to talk to my dad about it. I think they both exceeded the others because of a common set of factors. Both are women who have had to deal with social situations in which they get marginalized. They have to pay attention and know how to get a word in edgewise without coming off stupid. So they both knew how to read the complex situation and pipe up appropriately to take the spotlight effectively. Also, as you beautifully put it in terms of your own mom, they don't feel compelled to present calmly, demurely, because they have stuff to do and it's serious, and they don't have time to coddle your sorry country-club ass while getting their points across. Trump is beyond brash. He's crude and boorish, which some folks think means he's authentic. But I sense these two women have experience handling that kind of moron and can best him in a way that even reactionaries will respect. Leave me with my fantasies.
#ADOS needs to be on everyone's radar. Black leftist intellectuals are developing a very serious attitude about ID-hugging people of color wrapping themselves up in the legacy of segregation that they themselves did not actually experience. Literally every story Harris tells about herself falls apart under scrutiny, but lying when the media won't call you out on it is the new black. Pop #ADOS into your Twitter stream for some serious alt-analysis (and yes, provenance can be iffy). https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2019/06/28/more-than-gotcha-kamalas-busing-blunder/ and https://twitter.com/BreakingBrown/status/1144623479859437568 are good starts.
Yes, that's the way to serious analysis -- pop a hashtag into Twitter.
I don't know what #ADOS is --- but there's been an INCREDIBLY suspicious coordination happening. Like everyone is having the exact same thoughts about authenticity and the the black experience at the exact same time. Hmmm! https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/28/1867995/-Just-like-2016-An-army-of-very-suspicious-and-racist-anti-Kamala-Harris-posts-began-during-debate?utm_campaign=trending
Just like Obama before her, Kamala Harris is Black, in case you didn't know that. But she's really not Black enough, so she's not really Black and that's why Black people shouldn't vote for her.
But she is Black, which is why White people shouldn't vote for her.
And for anyone on the fence, Harris isn't really African American because she's half Jamaican, which makes her a complete fake and a phony when it comes to being Black.
Plus she’s black and American born, but the Jamaican blacks come from Iceland or somewhere
Yeah, all of this. This nonsense started last year when reparations talk started being bandied about again, and it was a way of determining who supposedly was and wasn't "eligible". Considering pretty much every African-American, African-Canadian and Afro-Caribbean *can* trace the reason they got here to slavery it's an argument without a lot of meaning. In
Just the White man's way
To never have to pay!
More in that vein (and somewhat reminiscent of the erasures of 2016): https://twitter.com/BreakingBrown/status/1144687926279753728
What? I mean I’m not following the whole argument you are trying to make. My post showed how, simultaneously, the same shit went out about Harris. I’m sure that there is a small sliver of African Americans who feel like a different kind of American black is crowding in on their reality — without really explaining why in any sensical way.
Also, what about her upbringing has been a lie? I’m wondering.
I was just trying to point to some different POVs. I actually look a lot like my avatar, so my opinion on this is not relevant. ADOS is not a small community, yet their views are routinely suppressed. These are the people who are always talking about reparations, a word most Americans had never heard before this year. There is also an enormous overlap between ADOS and 2016 Bernie supporters, and they are still very angry about the party erasing them two years ago. Feel free to think I'm a total douche, but if you actually care about winning, you'll look into ADOS more carefully. They're not Russians, just Americans angry that the media never sees them. And if you read something that says this is something new just invented by [fill in the blank], you're being bullshitted. Not new, not something tricksy.
Having people of color feel erased by erasing a woman of color is an interesting strategy. Again, I don’t understand their argument. I’m all in favor of reparations, I’ve been hearing all about it since TNC testified and there’s actually proof that Harris’ authenticity was being questioned by AstroTurf. It’s right there. I think it’s an unbelievable argument that a black American woman isn’t black American enough, but I guess that’s not my argument to make. It is, however something that requires some coherence which I don’t see or hear.
https://medium.com/@roderickshawngraham/reflections-on-the-ados-movement-a8f0355c7275 Not sure what you've been reading about ADOS, but this is a fairly objective overview of who they see themselves as being. Saying Harris being half Jamaican disqualifies her is harsh, but culturally she's Canadian as all hell and has deep-seated South Asian attitudes about the law and business. Surely you can see how African Americans might not feel as close to her as they would someone more like themselves, especially after eight years of Obama.
Oh HOLY FUCK. I went down the rabbit hole on ADOS as far as the Rev. William Barber and he says they are an anti-immigration front group funded by white xenophobes — which I confirmed through many, many sources. Yeah, so...
Thanks for that: obviously that hashtag has been trashed in the last day or so because earlier this week it reliably led to just ADOS activists who are mostly pretty obscure. So long as you're reading the activists themselves, I can't argue with your opinion. But if you're letting others explain ADOS to you....
I can't quite figure out why Uncle Joe was so little prepared for this inevitable clash. I remember how easily he dismantled Paul Ryan in the 2012 Veep debate (but then again Ryan has always been a media creation - talk about where's the beef). But he seems to have lost a lot of the old moxie he used to have. But I'm not too concerned really. His positions have always been way too neoliberal and disinclined to take it to the enemy (like the Turtle!).
I like the idea of a Warren/Harris ticket (or vice-versa) but I doubt seriously they would get along. It was tough enough for LBJ to take the Veep slot with JFK as president but back then the regional ticket balancing was more important than it is is now. But I could see a Harris/Inslee ticket or a Warren/Bennet ticket.
I think Biden feels like he’s owed. And if it isn’t paid off by the Oval Office, he wants the Steel Wheels Tour. One more time to get out there and hear the applause while still feeling like it’s not totally a revival act.
Her cop-excusing ways and 'creative' approach to getting convictions may help some suburban voters decide she's all right. 'You know they're harder on their own, the good ones on the Force.'
That pisses me off, but if it gets her, who isn't D.J.T., elected…well, that's how far degenerate times have degenerated me.
I know my Mom — an older white woman who lives in S. Carolina — is a fan of Harris. I like the idea of her facing off with Trump. Liz Warren has terrific policies and is warm and winning, but that whole DNA test debacle leaves me worried about her political instincts — and I've seen more than a few involved black people who hate her as a result, for cultural appropriation.
But it's a long time until the first primaries yet. Given how important the black vote is to the Dems, I think S.C. will be the most telling result.
Buttigieg has some very neoliberal instincts, but he speaks eloquently and I think would (at this point) make a fine veep.
I like her and Warren, I have no idea who I'm voting for in the primaries, it's a hard choice.