Here is my question: should we be submitting these columns to some entity that awards prizes, accolades, and/or money on submissions by readers (rather than by the writers themselves)? I am not familiar with all literary traditions.
Tonight ladies and gentlemen-- We're proud to bring to you America's new manly & totally not-at-all effete elitist Average Joe voice of moral clarity. The Hill is happy to present our latest commentatorer -- so here he is... (checks notes) ... Selwyn... Duke... ?
("Selwyn Duke" is the justly forgotten brother of Randolph and Winthrop Duke from that time they tried to corner the frozen concentrated orange juice market in 1983. He took over what was left and promptly ran it into the ground. Since then he's been trying to destroy the Securities and Exchange Commission.)
Well, with the way them Duke boys was always jumpin' the Gen'ral Lee over cricks and hollers to git away from that guvmint-sherrif guy no wonder the reg'lar folk cain't hep but love ol' cuzzin Selwyn (I'll stop now)
It makes sense that reactionaries would see their hero in a thuggish secret policeman like Putin. His insecurity and compulsion to engage in prominent displays of exaggerated macho behavior (riding horseback shirtless, etc.) mirrors their own inadequacies. I'd like to see them try to survive just one winter in Moscow, coping with a language that's almost impossible for a foreigner to learn.
JFC, it was perplexing me why Putin was pulling this shit now and now, reading the sub-head, it struck me: he's jealous of all the love Orban's getting so he has to show that for those people, he's the man.
BTW, on a certain level, isn't this some sort of game of which fascist one prefers, Ukrainian Nazis or Russian Christo-fascists?
(Caveat, if I may be serious: All kvetching about the shit Putin's pulling must acknowledge Victoria Nuland's initiative in 2014.)
Some full disclosures:
I'm well on record of buying the Greene/Tooze theory that the real problem is economic hegemony combined, I suppose, with Ukraine's historically fucked up economy. (Cites available on request because I've already provided them.)
Too, without Ukraine's pogroms in 1905, I wouldn't be here. And a tease: Without same, remote possibility the Beatles wouldn't have happened as we know them (allegedly, too lazy to confirm).
Weren't the Ukrainian Nazis pro-Putin and helped destabilize the Crimea enough to be annexed?
The gurl in me who tries to notice History Repeating sees Putin's antics in the Ukraine & sees a replay of Stalin.
(Also, "the Ukraine" seems a bit chichi, like "The Ohio State University Press" [who published my book]. Also, that last fact reminds me of something our dearly beloved Little Pig would say...)
You completely lost me on that paragraph. Need amplification.
My recollection is that Nulsnd’s Nazis were opposed to Putin’s then-efforts to influence Ukraine.
Meanwhile, apropos our discussion from the other day, I wonder how Ukrainian’s day to day lives would be affected were Putin to get his way. Given Ukraine’s history since ca. 1905, more so since the end of the USSR, answer should be Not to any extent that matters.
1) Yes. Besides which Belarus--for all intents and purposes a Russian client state--would be happy to assist. 2) Ukraine would be reconstituted into a new Russian empire along with Belarus (see 1) and other states on the new Russian empire borders (Baltic States, at least half of Poland). Their peoples would be subject to Russian laws and whims. (Holodomor II--This Time We Have Nukes Boogaloo.) Their leaders would get window cancer.
Interesting. Not to be glob, how would your scenario matter? My problem in part is that while, we’re it to matter, I’d much prefer an independent functional Ukraine, it hasn’t really been that since even before the USSR and not really afterwards either.
I presume you don’t expect the west to respond with proportional strength?
Actually, that guy who was ousted by the Maidan Revolution was actually democratically elected in what was a mostly fair election. He did turn out to be a pretty corrupt piece of shit, though. And I think that it started when he decided to get closer to Russia rather than sign a deal with the EU. However, I am sure it was an entirely home grown matter that the CIA had nothing to do with.
CIA’s been fucking with elections since it’s founding in the late 40s so no reason to assume anything about any election.
And query how democratic or free or clean an election is when the candidates are all scumbags who have no interest in serving a nation’s people. In Ukraine’s case, there’s been nothing but failure of the leadership since 1991. So I can’t see the worse version scenario of what’s going on now as been significantly worse. Not the west has the strength or will to do shit. And maybe there’s no way not to worsen the situation.
BTW; great how the foreign policy establishment pushed Russia and the PRC back together.
It's the usual suspects. It's been low but steady over the years. I am here to tell you twitter ignores Holocaust denialism, too, unless it's mass-reported.
Dreher has been banging the “gays and CRT are weakening our military” drum for a while now. A few months ago he blogged about discouraging his 17 year old son from joining the army when he graduates, not because the kid might get blown to bits but because he might have to serve alongside a guy who has a boyfriend.
Of course, trans people, gay people, and accurately acknowledging and teaching this country’s racial history (Evil “CRT” to conservatives) have been perennial bete noires for Dreher, so it follows he would believe they are destroying our military from within. He has only one hammer so he sees nothing but nails.
One could show RD entire volumes about how the super-tough & -manly Spartans considered soldiers having same-sex lovers in the same unit made them fight harder. Or that medieval Western knights often indulged in same-sex passions until the day that their feudal lord allowed them to marry.
Dreher's fear is understandable since he's been telling the kid for his entire life just how evil, twisted, and despicable teh gays are. If the kid joins the Army and suddenly discovers that gay people are, well, just people, that could lead the kid to start questioning what else pops told him is actually utter horseshit.
Yep. He also brags about how he doesn’t allow his kids to have smartphones – not just when they were younger, but even now when they are in their mid to late teens. There’s a lot of bad stuff online and I can understand wanting to protect your children, but at some point that crosses a line into blocking their ability to be exposed to a variety of viewpoints or to encounter the world as it actually exists.
What the Right always forgets is that after "cleaning up" leftists dictators always, always "clean up" rightists--also a threat to a dictatorship--immediately afterwards. So where would *they* flee to if this came here?
And then there's the rich guys who always think, "We can control this and use it for our own purposes!" which is so common that it's even a trope in various plays and movies. Jeez, has Peter Thiel never seen Cabaret?
I remember during the Cuban Missile Crisis my parents packed our 9 passenger station wagon full of food drinking water and camping gear. They filled the tank and parked it in the driveway for what seemed like a week as we watched the crisis unfold on TV. I remember we had to change the ice in the coolers. My mom or dad came up with the idea freezing water in saucepans and coffee cans to make giant ice cubes. I remember thinking that was so smart. I was four and a half years old. For the next 30 years or so, certainly during my formative years I was absolutely convinced I was going to die as a result of a Russian nuclear attack. I remember being in the fourth grade and watching Dr. Strangelove on ABC Sunday night at the Movies. I hid behind my Dad's chair. Peeking out from behind it to watch. I was terrified for weeks. Years. "On the Beach' had the same effect. That empty city with the pop bottle sending out a message of hope that was really just a sad joke. Once I hit 11 or 12 and started seriously reading I read it all- Alas Babylon, Fail Safe.Canticle for Leibowitz. Remember that Twilight Zone episode with Burgess Meridith wear he breaks his glasses? Planet of the Apes. That shitty
Sequel, Beneath the Planet etc sucked hard but the ending where they once more blew the shit out of everything gave me nightmares.
Anyway, point being, fuck Russians. Their corrupt warmongering leaders anyway. Putin's a criminal thug who seems well on his way to single handedly fucking up the whole world.
"Well boys, I reckon this is it: nuclear combat toe-to-toe with the Ruskies."
The USA were ones who started the Cold War, as a way to manage their position in a rapidly decolonizing world. Russia, deep in Stalin's cult of personlaity & despotism, was happy to play along. So fuck both of them.
I was terrified of impending doom all through my childhood too -- but at least that was only from 1985 to 1992 or so. We had "The Day After" on TV -- which was pretty stupidm despite its constant content warnings every commercial break.
The Russian civil war the west fueled ca. 1918 didn’t do the job so understandable that we’d try again after WWII. Besides, Wall Street and Big Business had to be given a sop because they had been so hopeful Germany would have succeeded against the USSR — efforts rewarded by the Allies going to war against Germany. And ever since, Wall Street and Big Business made up the primary beneficiaries of our exceptional foreign policy.
He's right about this one -- the Western powers tried to overturn the Revolution right after the Great War. There were even a few highly-secret incursions of troops. Let me see what I can dig up on Wikipedia.
1918-20 was a mind blowing historic period. Flu, red scare, huge increase in racism, beginning of financial speculation like rarely scene, the existential threat from the Russia revolution, one war ending with a cohort aching to go straight to the next one, vets coming home to Prohibition — there’s a Vidal or Doctorow or even maybe Pynchon novel there.
I was a little kid living with my family near Detroit during the Cuban Missile Crisis. My paternal grandparents had already retired to Florida. I remember my dad begging his parents to come home from Florida, and my grandpa and grandma saying Jeez, are you kidding? To *Detroit*? No thanks, we're safer in Bradenton.
I watched the same movies and read the same books. I wasn't exactly obsessed with the prospect of dying in a nuclear attack, but it just kind of colored my youth with a vague sense of wondering how much anything really mattered. It was not an attitude conducive to efficient goal-setting.
I just remember walking out the door on some crisp clear evening in October of '62, looking into the night sky and thinking "Huh...might be the last time I'll ever see this..."
I'm gonna drop this here because I've never found another place for it...
About 15 years ago we hosted some of our very best friends and colleagues, all experts in their fields of conservation, restoration, land and water resources management and policy, for a day out along the central coast, visiting some of the great places, followed by a fairly expansive dinner at our place. We had a really grand day out, enjoying the sun and the water and the landscapes and the critters, sharing insights on the state of the environmental, right down to the molecular level. It’s fun to be surrounded with our most respected associates and revel in and share our hard-won knowledge. And the stories!
That evening, as we enjoyed a Pacific sunset that faded slowly into darkness, we sat around a large table covered in quantities of the best local foods and wines. We worked our way thru lots of both, and as the dark closed in, I turned off all but the light hanging low over the table. This focused the view on just the 15 of us there, and we were all ready for the conversation to ratchet up a notch or two. So our resident marine sanctuary director, old salt and splendid storyteller decided to tell a tale. If you do not now have in mind the setting of the below-deck scene from Jaws where Quint tells the story of the Indianapolis then now's the time to envision it.
We all knew that in his early career he’d been a marine biologist who spent most of his time on east coast commercial fishing boats, because he understood that those guys (it was all guys then) knew more about the habits of fish and lobsters and crabs than pretty much everyone else combined. So he was very attuned to working people and their wisdom. What we did not know was that before his conservation career started, he’d been a submariner. He began his story by saying he’d never before told this to anyone.
In 1962 he was a sonar technician on a submarine stationed off the eastern coast of North America. In October the sub received instructions to head to Florida and start tracking Soviet ships near Cuba. The crew knew that this was not anything less than the real thing, and he was particularly pointed in this part of his story. We were very quiet as we sat in the dark around the table, all leaned in to hear him and watch him craft this tale in the low light.
He said his job was to pinpoint the Soviet vessels closely enough that they could be attacked and sunk as quickly as possible, if it came to it. And he was very clear on this: his sub, and the others in the area, were prepared and easily capable of destroying all the Soviet ships. His commander and crew were pretty certain that the Soviets must have assumed there were subs nearby, but that they had no idea where, and so they likely were terrified of the prospective consequences of the situation. He said it was as if the US subs were in complete command of the ocean, and the outcome was not in doubt. He said that at one point it felt like the countdown to the end of the world was measurable in minutes. His demeanor was serious but not somber – he was doing his best to make us see the situation for what it was, rather than thru the lens of various reports from the time, or histories later.
Eventually the powers that be sorted out their little contretemps and the subs backed out. He left it there for us to think about…
We sat collectively quiet for awhile, because saying “wow” just would not begin to capture the moment. Eventually we hoisted a round to him for the gift of the experience of hearing it.
All that to say there are stories out there waiting for the right audience, and if you get the opportunity to bring that audience together in the right setting, be prepared for magic…
Let us never forget American and British right wingers’ love affair with Hitler. Nothing new under the sun, except polar ice melting, raging wildfires, shoreline flooding…
Yes, it's like a machine, or a piece of software, they have a default setting, but there's also a big red "override" button that gets pushed occasionally.
This piece reminds me that a long-ago friend who went hard right after 9/11 once told me that in any dispute, if one side is 60% right and the other side is 40% right, then the side that’s 60% right is actually 100% right. It’s a very alien way of looking at the world to me, but I think it may explain a lot of conservative thought. They have committed to hating Biden, therefore they must commit to loving Putin.
The sheepdog says to the shepherd: "Here are those 30 sheep you said you wanted" and the shepherd says, "30? I though there were only 26?" and the sheepdog says, "Well, you said you wanted me to round them up."
If you're a White supremacist with a hard-on for dictators, you've got a limited menu to choose from. Sure, the world's full of dictators, but most of 'em are the wrong color, dammit! Russia sits right at the center of a Venn diagram labeled "Majority White Nations" and "Ruled by Dictator".
The question that always flummoxes me in these situations: How much of any right-wing behavior is attributable to anything you might generously call "ideas", and how much is simple Cleek's Law? Joe Biden is - no matter how much they hate to admit it - the President of the United States, and if he says it's wrong for Russia to annex Ukraine, what choice do they have but to disagree? Wouldn't be good for Tucker's career to be seen agreeing with Joe Biden on ANYTHING, right?
And to what extent is the right's years-long Putinophilia due to a simple accident of history, the fact that a Democrat - and a BLACK Democrat at that - was President when Vlad grabbed Crimea? This Democrat (and I did I mention BLACK?) had the nerve to speak out on the matter, and that really painted them into a corner, didn't it?
i don't mean to discount the toxic stew of authoritarianism and homophobia that makes up the "mind" of Rod Dreher, but if you had to guess at a percentage split, what percentage would you give to "Sleepy Joe's agin' it, I gotta be fer it!"
This is exactly what I was wondering, i.e., how much of this ludicrous swill they actually believe, and how much is knee-jerk anti-Biden/Dems. The former indicates brute stupidity, while the latter indicates moral bankruptcy.
"Can't it be both?" (rolls eyes; Eddie Izzard Reluctant Voice) "OH ALL RIGHT..."
Yeah, when I get to the point where I'm wondering if it's 60% brute stupidity and 40% moral bankruptcy or the other way around, I'm definitely giving these assholes WAAAAY more thought than they deserve.
An asshole like Dreher describing his values as "Western" reminds me of that Charlie Brown comic where Violet has a new bracelet she describes as "Hi-Fi"
"Finally, religious people may say, somebody stands up without apology to these people who are trying to crush us…"
Can't we all try harder? To crush religious people? Yes, Brother Rod is onto us, so it'll be a little more difficult than we might like. But he's constantly whining about being crushed, being persecuted, being oppressed... He *wants* that, don't you see? So can't we give him what he wants?
Thanks, those will all do nicely. Personally, I'm going to go with "Live your life according to the actual precepts of that noted philosopher, Jesus Christ." That one drives them REALLY bonkers.
"Oh, many, many characters were spilled, 240 at a time, let me tell you!" says The Old Timer as the children draw nearer for another Tale of Adventure.
There’s a difference between what the military calls a “kinetic” war (actual bang-bang) and economic and cyber war. We are already at war with Russia (by “we” I mean NATO) under the latter frame. Under the circumstances we face now: basically a Texas sized economy with a lot of nuclear weapons and led by a clearly unstable, paranoid leader, a direct military confrontation is, at best, very premature and a smartly waged economic war probably more effective even if it will cause the world economy a lot of pain. (Xi might be having new buddy’s remorse in that respect.)
As for the bottom-feeding, authoritarian lovers, that is regrettably a quite venerable tradition on the anti-democratic, isolationist right as we know. Resist, resist, resist.
Damn Roy: make this one shareable...
Damn Share: make this one royable...
Here is my question: should we be submitting these columns to some entity that awards prizes, accolades, and/or money on submissions by readers (rather than by the writers themselves)? I am not familiar with all literary traditions.
Have done so!
Tonight ladies and gentlemen-- We're proud to bring to you America's new manly & totally not-at-all effete elitist Average Joe voice of moral clarity. The Hill is happy to present our latest commentatorer -- so here he is... (checks notes) ... Selwyn... Duke... ?
("Selwyn Duke" is the justly forgotten brother of Randolph and Winthrop Duke from that time they tried to corner the frozen concentrated orange juice market in 1983. He took over what was left and promptly ran it into the ground. Since then he's been trying to destroy the Securities and Exchange Commission.)
we founded this exchange!
On rock and roll!
Well, with the way them Duke boys was always jumpin' the Gen'ral Lee over cricks and hollers to git away from that guvmint-sherrif guy no wonder the reg'lar folk cain't hep but love ol' cuzzin Selwyn (I'll stop now)
Yeah, probly wise...at least til you perfect the accent...
"Someone call Security, we've got an attempt at dialect in aisle 3..."
It makes sense that reactionaries would see their hero in a thuggish secret policeman like Putin. His insecurity and compulsion to engage in prominent displays of exaggerated macho behavior (riding horseback shirtless, etc.) mirrors their own inadequacies. I'd like to see them try to survive just one winter in Moscow, coping with a language that's almost impossible for a foreigner to learn.
and even if they did understand it, the messaging could and likely would be so twisted and perverted that they would be lost in a sea of bs...
The solidarity of global fascists.
JFC, it was perplexing me why Putin was pulling this shit now and now, reading the sub-head, it struck me: he's jealous of all the love Orban's getting so he has to show that for those people, he's the man.
BTW, on a certain level, isn't this some sort of game of which fascist one prefers, Ukrainian Nazis or Russian Christo-fascists?
(Caveat, if I may be serious: All kvetching about the shit Putin's pulling must acknowledge Victoria Nuland's initiative in 2014.)
Some full disclosures:
I'm well on record of buying the Greene/Tooze theory that the real problem is economic hegemony combined, I suppose, with Ukraine's historically fucked up economy. (Cites available on request because I've already provided them.)
Too, without Ukraine's pogroms in 1905, I wouldn't be here. And a tease: Without same, remote possibility the Beatles wouldn't have happened as we know them (allegedly, too lazy to confirm).
Weren't the Ukrainian Nazis pro-Putin and helped destabilize the Crimea enough to be annexed?
The gurl in me who tries to notice History Repeating sees Putin's antics in the Ukraine & sees a replay of Stalin.
(Also, "the Ukraine" seems a bit chichi, like "The Ohio State University Press" [who published my book]. Also, that last fact reminds me of something our dearly beloved Little Pig would say...)
You completely lost me on that paragraph. Need amplification.
My recollection is that Nulsnd’s Nazis were opposed to Putin’s then-efforts to influence Ukraine.
Meanwhile, apropos our discussion from the other day, I wonder how Ukrainian’s day to day lives would be affected were Putin to get his way. Given Ukraine’s history since ca. 1905, more so since the end of the USSR, answer should be Not to any extent that matters.
Putin has already tried installing one of his puppets as Ukraine's president--see "Maidan Revolution" for the denouement.
And you could almost say that about anywhere: Everyone's "day to day lives" would not really be affected. Until the soldiers come.
So you think Russia can occupy the entirety of Ukraine? And even if “the soldiers come”, you expect them to do what? How do you see this playing out?
1) Yes. Besides which Belarus--for all intents and purposes a Russian client state--would be happy to assist. 2) Ukraine would be reconstituted into a new Russian empire along with Belarus (see 1) and other states on the new Russian empire borders (Baltic States, at least half of Poland). Their peoples would be subject to Russian laws and whims. (Holodomor II--This Time We Have Nukes Boogaloo.) Their leaders would get window cancer.
Interesting. Not to be glob, how would your scenario matter? My problem in part is that while, we’re it to matter, I’d much prefer an independent functional Ukraine, it hasn’t really been that since even before the USSR and not really afterwards either.
I presume you don’t expect the west to respond with proportional strength?
Actually, that guy who was ousted by the Maidan Revolution was actually democratically elected in what was a mostly fair election. He did turn out to be a pretty corrupt piece of shit, though. And I think that it started when he decided to get closer to Russia rather than sign a deal with the EU. However, I am sure it was an entirely home grown matter that the CIA had nothing to do with.
CIA’s been fucking with elections since it’s founding in the late 40s so no reason to assume anything about any election.
And query how democratic or free or clean an election is when the candidates are all scumbags who have no interest in serving a nation’s people. In Ukraine’s case, there’s been nothing but failure of the leadership since 1991. So I can’t see the worse version scenario of what’s going on now as been significantly worse. Not the west has the strength or will to do shit. And maybe there’s no way not to worsen the situation.
BTW; great how the foreign policy establishment pushed Russia and the PRC back together.
Hell the Nazis seem to be a part of the Ukraine government right now.
Not unlike part of ours now. But no worrying about ours being voted out of power. When the masses get abused enough, they look to fascists.
It seems like it's Nazis on both sides here, unfortunately
Besides or in addition to being a dilemma, it’s also something of a shit show.
Nazis all the way down.
A lot of them are plumping for Duterte and Hitler.
❤️ the solidarity of the global brotherhood of fascists.
Wait, actual Hitler? The guy with the moustache? I gotta see that...
It's the usual suspects. It's been low but steady over the years. I am here to tell you twitter ignores Holocaust denialism, too, unless it's mass-reported.
Dreher has been banging the “gays and CRT are weakening our military” drum for a while now. A few months ago he blogged about discouraging his 17 year old son from joining the army when he graduates, not because the kid might get blown to bits but because he might have to serve alongside a guy who has a boyfriend.
Of course, trans people, gay people, and accurately acknowledging and teaching this country’s racial history (Evil “CRT” to conservatives) have been perennial bete noires for Dreher, so it follows he would believe they are destroying our military from within. He has only one hammer so he sees nothing but nails.
One could show RD entire volumes about how the super-tough & -manly Spartans considered soldiers having same-sex lovers in the same unit made them fight harder. Or that medieval Western knights often indulged in same-sex passions until the day that their feudal lord allowed them to marry.
If it's not in the movie 300, it didn't happen.
Dreher's fear is understandable since he's been telling the kid for his entire life just how evil, twisted, and despicable teh gays are. If the kid joins the Army and suddenly discovers that gay people are, well, just people, that could lead the kid to start questioning what else pops told him is actually utter horseshit.
Yep. He also brags about how he doesn’t allow his kids to have smartphones – not just when they were younger, but even now when they are in their mid to late teens. There’s a lot of bad stuff online and I can understand wanting to protect your children, but at some point that crosses a line into blocking their ability to be exposed to a variety of viewpoints or to encounter the world as it actually exists.
Having seen the results of hyper-protective parenting first-hand, my personal view is that doing so is child abuse.
I thought one of his kids is in college?
He has three. The two younger ones are in high school.
Knowing nothing about that poor kid but I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t already think his dead is serious bonkers.
What the Right always forgets is that after "cleaning up" leftists dictators always, always "clean up" rightists--also a threat to a dictatorship--immediately afterwards. So where would *they* flee to if this came here?
Elon Musk's iridium colony on Mimas
And then there's the rich guys who always think, "We can control this and use it for our own purposes!" which is so common that it's even a trope in various plays and movies. Jeez, has Peter Thiel never seen Cabaret?
I remember during the Cuban Missile Crisis my parents packed our 9 passenger station wagon full of food drinking water and camping gear. They filled the tank and parked it in the driveway for what seemed like a week as we watched the crisis unfold on TV. I remember we had to change the ice in the coolers. My mom or dad came up with the idea freezing water in saucepans and coffee cans to make giant ice cubes. I remember thinking that was so smart. I was four and a half years old. For the next 30 years or so, certainly during my formative years I was absolutely convinced I was going to die as a result of a Russian nuclear attack. I remember being in the fourth grade and watching Dr. Strangelove on ABC Sunday night at the Movies. I hid behind my Dad's chair. Peeking out from behind it to watch. I was terrified for weeks. Years. "On the Beach' had the same effect. That empty city with the pop bottle sending out a message of hope that was really just a sad joke. Once I hit 11 or 12 and started seriously reading I read it all- Alas Babylon, Fail Safe.Canticle for Leibowitz. Remember that Twilight Zone episode with Burgess Meridith wear he breaks his glasses? Planet of the Apes. That shitty
Sequel, Beneath the Planet etc sucked hard but the ending where they once more blew the shit out of everything gave me nightmares.
Anyway, point being, fuck Russians. Their corrupt warmongering leaders anyway. Putin's a criminal thug who seems well on his way to single handedly fucking up the whole world.
"Well boys, I reckon this is it: nuclear combat toe-to-toe with the Ruskies."
It's okay - we'll meet again...
The USA were ones who started the Cold War, as a way to manage their position in a rapidly decolonizing world. Russia, deep in Stalin's cult of personlaity & despotism, was happy to play along. So fuck both of them.
I was terrified of impending doom all through my childhood too -- but at least that was only from 1985 to 1992 or so. We had "The Day After" on TV -- which was pretty stupidm despite its constant content warnings every commercial break.
The Russian civil war the west fueled ca. 1918 didn’t do the job so understandable that we’d try again after WWII. Besides, Wall Street and Big Business had to be given a sop because they had been so hopeful Germany would have succeeded against the USSR — efforts rewarded by the Allies going to war against Germany. And ever since, Wall Street and Big Business made up the primary beneficiaries of our exceptional foreign policy.
"The Russian civil war the west fueled ca. 1918" is a new one to me. Is there a good explainer of our involvement?
He's right about this one -- the Western powers tried to overturn the Revolution right after the Great War. There were even a few highly-secret incursions of troops. Let me see what I can dig up on Wikipedia.
Thanks, sib, you saved me the work.
Dirty little secret: as a rule, Wiki is really good.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/forgotten-doughboys-who-died-fighting-russian-civil-war-180971470/
See also, Sidney Reilly, "Ace of Spies", but actually premature fascist.
My bad, fueled is not the word.
1918-20 was a mind blowing historic period. Flu, red scare, huge increase in racism, beginning of financial speculation like rarely scene, the existential threat from the Russia revolution, one war ending with a cohort aching to go straight to the next one, vets coming home to Prohibition — there’s a Vidal or Doctorow or even maybe Pynchon novel there.
I was a little kid living with my family near Detroit during the Cuban Missile Crisis. My paternal grandparents had already retired to Florida. I remember my dad begging his parents to come home from Florida, and my grandpa and grandma saying Jeez, are you kidding? To *Detroit*? No thanks, we're safer in Bradenton.
I watched the same movies and read the same books. I wasn't exactly obsessed with the prospect of dying in a nuclear attack, but it just kind of colored my youth with a vague sense of wondering how much anything really mattered. It was not an attitude conducive to efficient goal-setting.
I just remember walking out the door on some crisp clear evening in October of '62, looking into the night sky and thinking "Huh...might be the last time I'll ever see this..."
I'm gonna drop this here because I've never found another place for it...
About 15 years ago we hosted some of our very best friends and colleagues, all experts in their fields of conservation, restoration, land and water resources management and policy, for a day out along the central coast, visiting some of the great places, followed by a fairly expansive dinner at our place. We had a really grand day out, enjoying the sun and the water and the landscapes and the critters, sharing insights on the state of the environmental, right down to the molecular level. It’s fun to be surrounded with our most respected associates and revel in and share our hard-won knowledge. And the stories!
That evening, as we enjoyed a Pacific sunset that faded slowly into darkness, we sat around a large table covered in quantities of the best local foods and wines. We worked our way thru lots of both, and as the dark closed in, I turned off all but the light hanging low over the table. This focused the view on just the 15 of us there, and we were all ready for the conversation to ratchet up a notch or two. So our resident marine sanctuary director, old salt and splendid storyteller decided to tell a tale. If you do not now have in mind the setting of the below-deck scene from Jaws where Quint tells the story of the Indianapolis then now's the time to envision it.
We all knew that in his early career he’d been a marine biologist who spent most of his time on east coast commercial fishing boats, because he understood that those guys (it was all guys then) knew more about the habits of fish and lobsters and crabs than pretty much everyone else combined. So he was very attuned to working people and their wisdom. What we did not know was that before his conservation career started, he’d been a submariner. He began his story by saying he’d never before told this to anyone.
In 1962 he was a sonar technician on a submarine stationed off the eastern coast of North America. In October the sub received instructions to head to Florida and start tracking Soviet ships near Cuba. The crew knew that this was not anything less than the real thing, and he was particularly pointed in this part of his story. We were very quiet as we sat in the dark around the table, all leaned in to hear him and watch him craft this tale in the low light.
He said his job was to pinpoint the Soviet vessels closely enough that they could be attacked and sunk as quickly as possible, if it came to it. And he was very clear on this: his sub, and the others in the area, were prepared and easily capable of destroying all the Soviet ships. His commander and crew were pretty certain that the Soviets must have assumed there were subs nearby, but that they had no idea where, and so they likely were terrified of the prospective consequences of the situation. He said it was as if the US subs were in complete command of the ocean, and the outcome was not in doubt. He said that at one point it felt like the countdown to the end of the world was measurable in minutes. His demeanor was serious but not somber – he was doing his best to make us see the situation for what it was, rather than thru the lens of various reports from the time, or histories later.
Eventually the powers that be sorted out their little contretemps and the subs backed out. He left it there for us to think about…
We sat collectively quiet for awhile, because saying “wow” just would not begin to capture the moment. Eventually we hoisted a round to him for the gift of the experience of hearing it.
All that to say there are stories out there waiting for the right audience, and if you get the opportunity to bring that audience together in the right setting, be prepared for magic…
Let us never forget American and British right wingers’ love affair with Hitler. Nothing new under the sun, except polar ice melting, raging wildfires, shoreline flooding…
Yes, it's important to remember the Conservative Default Position, "Eh, not my problem."
Well, except for wombs, gays and trans people -- those are definitely a "problem" they have taken unto themselves
Yes, it's like a machine, or a piece of software, they have a default setting, but there's also a big red "override" button that gets pushed occasionally.
Sometimes I click on one of the links to see what Dreher is up to. And I'm baffled anyone can write this tripe with a straight face:
“What do you call it in English when people refuse to see any evidence that doesn’t confirm their beliefs?”
“Epistemic closure?” I said.
“Yes, epistemic closure.” The Hungarian shook her head in disbelief.
Sounds like an exchange Jordan Klepper might have with one of the idiots he interviews at Trump rallies.
"The misogyny is so obvious it's ironic"
"Yeah, exactly!"
This piece reminds me that a long-ago friend who went hard right after 9/11 once told me that in any dispute, if one side is 60% right and the other side is 40% right, then the side that’s 60% right is actually 100% right. It’s a very alien way of looking at the world to me, but I think it may explain a lot of conservative thought. They have committed to hating Biden, therefore they must commit to loving Putin.
Silly liberal, what have you got against rounding up?
It makes sense: fascists are always interested in rounding up people
The sheepdog says to the shepherd: "Here are those 30 sheep you said you wanted" and the shepherd says, "30? I though there were only 26?" and the sheepdog says, "Well, you said you wanted me to round them up."
I'm stealing that joke.
Based on experience, I can tell you it absolutely KILLS with fifth-graders.
Were you worried that it might, therefore, be a little sophisticated for around here?
3 marks! Well, I rounded up...
And yet it’s a minority of voters and their minority party who’ve been dominant for years.
If you're a White supremacist with a hard-on for dictators, you've got a limited menu to choose from. Sure, the world's full of dictators, but most of 'em are the wrong color, dammit! Russia sits right at the center of a Venn diagram labeled "Majority White Nations" and "Ruled by Dictator".
Venn vill they ever learn?!
The question that always flummoxes me in these situations: How much of any right-wing behavior is attributable to anything you might generously call "ideas", and how much is simple Cleek's Law? Joe Biden is - no matter how much they hate to admit it - the President of the United States, and if he says it's wrong for Russia to annex Ukraine, what choice do they have but to disagree? Wouldn't be good for Tucker's career to be seen agreeing with Joe Biden on ANYTHING, right?
And to what extent is the right's years-long Putinophilia due to a simple accident of history, the fact that a Democrat - and a BLACK Democrat at that - was President when Vlad grabbed Crimea? This Democrat (and I did I mention BLACK?) had the nerve to speak out on the matter, and that really painted them into a corner, didn't it?
i don't mean to discount the toxic stew of authoritarianism and homophobia that makes up the "mind" of Rod Dreher, but if you had to guess at a percentage split, what percentage would you give to "Sleepy Joe's agin' it, I gotta be fer it!"
This is exactly what I was wondering, i.e., how much of this ludicrous swill they actually believe, and how much is knee-jerk anti-Biden/Dems. The former indicates brute stupidity, while the latter indicates moral bankruptcy.
"Can't it be both?" (rolls eyes; Eddie Izzard Reluctant Voice) "OH ALL RIGHT..."
Yeah, when I get to the point where I'm wondering if it's 60% brute stupidity and 40% moral bankruptcy or the other way around, I'm definitely giving these assholes WAAAAY more thought than they deserve.
Not worth pondering because it doesn’t really matter.
The real concern is the huge number of people who buy it.
Then again, sometimes stupidity is physiological, sometimes a willful choice.
Putin as a defender of Western values? Do they know who he is? Or do they care?
You are indulging in wrongthink, comrade. Some values are more Western than others.
An asshole like Dreher describing his values as "Western" reminds me of that Charlie Brown comic where Violet has a new bracelet she describes as "Hi-Fi"
I am so old I'd forgotten that one.
I think the descendants of Emperor Constantine would be happy to be once again considered "Western" Christianity.
He plays a Christofascist in public so of course they love him.
Note the promulgation of the legend that L'il Putin was secretly baptised by his grandmother.
"Finally, religious people may say, somebody stands up without apology to these people who are trying to crush us…"
Can't we all try harder? To crush religious people? Yes, Brother Rod is onto us, so it'll be a little more difficult than we might like. But he's constantly whining about being crushed, being persecuted, being oppressed... He *wants* that, don't you see? So can't we give him what he wants?
I'd like to help, really I would, but i think The Gays is already gettin' hitched as fast as they can, and I don't know what other knob to turn.
I'm thinking polyam gay marriage. Also, pronouns. Pronouns upset these people a lot. Oh, and the gay cowboy song.
Thanks, those will all do nicely. Personally, I'm going to go with "Live your life according to the actual precepts of that noted philosopher, Jesus Christ." That one drives them REALLY bonkers.
"No heaven, no hell, no worries" is my calm response to whatever they got toppin' the charts this week...
Well, I'd say you're a dreamer, but I suspect you're not the only one.
I tried to get to Oneness, but could never get beyond Tunis.
Gotta say pronouns confuse me in practice although, of course, fine (or better) in theory. Probably a failing on my part.
They’re unhinged and heretics so who cares about them other than the harm they’re doing. Antipathy is due to what they do, less what they are.
It was nice to see J.D. Vance acquire yet another outlet in his nether bifurcation over his own "Who care's about Ukraine?" comments.
(Warning: Mediaite link.)
https://www.mediaite.com/news/jd-vance-gets-completely-dunked-on-by-retired-four-star-general-in-brutal-twitter-spat/#disqus_thread
Sorry, I stopped reading after the words "Brutal Twitter Spat." Some folks need to get out of the house more.
Yup, tho I gotta say, "Brutal Twitter Spat" is prime limerick-triggering material...
I know what the last word is....
Don't Tell Me!
It's actually a triple rhyme & near-Spoonerism
"Oh, many, many characters were spilled, 240 at a time, let me tell you!" says The Old Timer as the children draw nearer for another Tale of Adventure.
My synapses are straining to read that as Brutal Twitter Twat.
I wanted to upvote but the little heart seems to have died... So, upvoted!
The edit feature added, a new bug created.
There’s a difference between what the military calls a “kinetic” war (actual bang-bang) and economic and cyber war. We are already at war with Russia (by “we” I mean NATO) under the latter frame. Under the circumstances we face now: basically a Texas sized economy with a lot of nuclear weapons and led by a clearly unstable, paranoid leader, a direct military confrontation is, at best, very premature and a smartly waged economic war probably more effective even if it will cause the world economy a lot of pain. (Xi might be having new buddy’s remorse in that respect.)
As for the bottom-feeding, authoritarian lovers, that is regrettably a quite venerable tradition on the anti-democratic, isolationist right as we know. Resist, resist, resist.