My guess is that this will go the way of so many other losing social causes: Conservatives proclaim victory, party like it's 1999, and then begin to recognize that people THEY know and love are directly affected by this. When some arch-conservative's daughter bleeds out in the downstairs bathroom because she perforated herself with a knitting needle, we'll start hearing about how maybe there should be some exceptions.
No, not even then. Because if it didn't happen on Fox News, it didn't happen. (Nor on the rare occasions I saw Fox News did I see anyone visibly pregnant.)
'Cause this is "MOAR WHITE BABBIES" cranked up to 11.
We'll see the evangelical right (which has become all of the GOP, but you all knew that already) back away from their maximal position when the social tables actually turn. What would that look like? We need to unwind the whole sorry anti-abortion crusade right back to the beginning, when Bob Jones "University" had its ban on inter-racial dating struck down (if I remember the details correctly, they were told they could have the ban or they could have tax-exempt status--choose *one*) and it became obvious that the constant background racism of southern conservatism was going to be a much harder lift going forwards. Who to replace blacks with as targets of hate....why, how about those filthy baby-killing sluts who had just been freed from any moral restraint by those pernicious black-robed smarty-pants in DC? The rest is history, of course.<cr><cr>
My point being that women, like blacks, are safe targets. They're not white men, are they? So when women become people that one *does not* want to fuck with casually, the right will stop doing it. Maybe this will happen when cars with "Choose Life" plates get vandalized on a weekly basis. Maybe when enough people with tacky pro-life bumperstickers get grilled about how many handicapped children they've adopted. Maybe when enough of them get fired and discover that while your religion may be a protected class in employment law, your political beliefs sure aren't. Maybe when enough of their kids move out of their shithole states and never come back. Maybe when pregnant tourists or business travelers won't book flights that have a layover in your shithole state, never mind actually visit and spend money, and businesses start to go under. <cr><cr>
When they realize what their pride has bought them, they MIGHT think about changing their minds.
No matter how many of their children move out of their states, each such will still have two Senators and at least three electoral votes,makung each bitter lynatic left propirtionateky more powerful.
There will always be abortions for those wth the right connections (white, middle class, in blue states). The old term of art was "menstrual extraction," allegedly to correct amenorrhea. Two physicians would have to authorize such a procedure. At New York Hospital a physician would approach other physicians in the coat room with a request to second the authorization. My dad (solid FDR-hating Eisenhower Republican) signed many of these. No one was fooled, these were first trimester abortions and, given the diagnostic technology of the time, well past the deadlines set by the troglodytes in the former Confederacy. The poor went to abortionists who made the infamous Dr. Kermit Gosnell look like Albert Schweitzer.
The goal at this point may be the extreme laws get struck down, *but* in the opinions a fetus gets legally declared a person. Acknowledged as having its own rights. That has to be the point of resistance. Laws need to be passed drawing the line for the imaginary and hypothetical persons of corporations and unborn. Neither can give testimony, serve on a jury, vote or fulfill any other role of a citizen. Therefore the law should not acknowledge them as a person. If money is speech, a corporation can speak and why not vote? Should a pregnant woman with twins get three votes after heart cells start pulsing at six weeks? Note, that is NOT an actual heart pumping blood. It is cells beginning to function as a proto organ inchoate. So laws must define these matters, just gay marriage became a thing when radical rightwingers sought to deny gays a right to privacy on that basis, since Griswold and other precedent have marriage as a component. So now the prize is establishing person status for a cluster of cells in the womb.
Yeah, this is very important. It struck me that overturning Roe won't be that huge a deal in itself as it won't have any effect on abortion law in the states where it's normal, and the other states have been able to chip it to almost nothing anyway. But the personhood thing is just ghastly and could affect the country as a whole.
Over the decades, every time I see cretinous political clowns pulling shit like this I think 'how can somewhere so nice be so f*cking bent? Then I realise, it's a feature not a glitch. So Gonad can get a second term.
If Roe was overturned or even fetal personhood upheld will there be a massive reaction from women in 2020 taking the form of a huge turnout? I honestly don't know. So much uncertainty right now.
What gets me is that ANY woman can vote Republican. After all the anti-woman stuff the GOP has done over the last 20 years? Yet, there's still an awful lot of women (around 43% of them) who vote GOP every time.
My guess is that this will go the way of so many other losing social causes: Conservatives proclaim victory, party like it's 1999, and then begin to recognize that people THEY know and love are directly affected by this. When some arch-conservative's daughter bleeds out in the downstairs bathroom because she perforated herself with a knitting needle, we'll start hearing about how maybe there should be some exceptions.
Nah, those daughters will go somewhere for a legal abortion. Maybe Canada, where all our obgyns will be in exile.
No, not even then. Because if it didn't happen on Fox News, it didn't happen. (Nor on the rare occasions I saw Fox News did I see anyone visibly pregnant.)
'Cause this is "MOAR WHITE BABBIES" cranked up to 11.
We'll see the evangelical right (which has become all of the GOP, but you all knew that already) back away from their maximal position when the social tables actually turn. What would that look like? We need to unwind the whole sorry anti-abortion crusade right back to the beginning, when Bob Jones "University" had its ban on inter-racial dating struck down (if I remember the details correctly, they were told they could have the ban or they could have tax-exempt status--choose *one*) and it became obvious that the constant background racism of southern conservatism was going to be a much harder lift going forwards. Who to replace blacks with as targets of hate....why, how about those filthy baby-killing sluts who had just been freed from any moral restraint by those pernicious black-robed smarty-pants in DC? The rest is history, of course.<cr><cr>
My point being that women, like blacks, are safe targets. They're not white men, are they? So when women become people that one *does not* want to fuck with casually, the right will stop doing it. Maybe this will happen when cars with "Choose Life" plates get vandalized on a weekly basis. Maybe when enough people with tacky pro-life bumperstickers get grilled about how many handicapped children they've adopted. Maybe when enough of them get fired and discover that while your religion may be a protected class in employment law, your political beliefs sure aren't. Maybe when enough of their kids move out of their shithole states and never come back. Maybe when pregnant tourists or business travelers won't book flights that have a layover in your shithole state, never mind actually visit and spend money, and businesses start to go under. <cr><cr>
When they realize what their pride has bought them, they MIGHT think about changing their minds.
No matter how many of their children move out of their states, each such will still have two Senators and at least three electoral votes,makung each bitter lynatic left propirtionateky more powerful.
There will always be abortions for those wth the right connections (white, middle class, in blue states). The old term of art was "menstrual extraction," allegedly to correct amenorrhea. Two physicians would have to authorize such a procedure. At New York Hospital a physician would approach other physicians in the coat room with a request to second the authorization. My dad (solid FDR-hating Eisenhower Republican) signed many of these. No one was fooled, these were first trimester abortions and, given the diagnostic technology of the time, well past the deadlines set by the troglodytes in the former Confederacy. The poor went to abortionists who made the infamous Dr. Kermit Gosnell look like Albert Schweitzer.
The goal at this point may be the extreme laws get struck down, *but* in the opinions a fetus gets legally declared a person. Acknowledged as having its own rights. That has to be the point of resistance. Laws need to be passed drawing the line for the imaginary and hypothetical persons of corporations and unborn. Neither can give testimony, serve on a jury, vote or fulfill any other role of a citizen. Therefore the law should not acknowledge them as a person. If money is speech, a corporation can speak and why not vote? Should a pregnant woman with twins get three votes after heart cells start pulsing at six weeks? Note, that is NOT an actual heart pumping blood. It is cells beginning to function as a proto organ inchoate. So laws must define these matters, just gay marriage became a thing when radical rightwingers sought to deny gays a right to privacy on that basis, since Griswold and other precedent have marriage as a component. So now the prize is establishing person status for a cluster of cells in the womb.
KLK
...just AS gay marriage became a thing...
Yeah, this is very important. It struck me that overturning Roe won't be that huge a deal in itself as it won't have any effect on abortion law in the states where it's normal, and the other states have been able to chip it to almost nothing anyway. But the personhood thing is just ghastly and could affect the country as a whole.
Over the decades, every time I see cretinous political clowns pulling shit like this I think 'how can somewhere so nice be so f*cking bent? Then I realise, it's a feature not a glitch. So Gonad can get a second term.
If Roe was overturned or even fetal personhood upheld will there be a massive reaction from women in 2020 taking the form of a huge turnout? I honestly don't know. So much uncertainty right now.
What gets me is that ANY woman can vote Republican. After all the anti-woman stuff the GOP has done over the last 20 years? Yet, there's still an awful lot of women (around 43% of them) who vote GOP every time.