Again. We did that at Wounded Knee back in the 90s. My great great grandad ice skated in their on a frozen creek to take pictures. Sadly, none of the iconic pictures of Wounded Knee were his
I support retaking the South. We already have troops in place and, given the dual catastrophes of pandemic and climate change, the locals will welcome us with open arms.
I gotta admit, yesterday's Collapse of Civilization and Massacre of the Innocent in Afganistan certainly took my mind off of the Collapse of Civilization and the Massacre of the innocent here in the (confederate) States.
I'll probably worry about them both today. Plus maybe some Murder Hornets.
It has been discouraging but not very surprising to see the way many political reporters have lunged at the opportunity to harshly criticize Biden in their never-ending quest to convince conservatives of their “neutrality.” You’d think after being cursed at and spit on at Trump rallies for five years they would realize by now there’s nothing they can do to win these people. They are like a battered spouse who believes if she just tweaks her behavior a little more, it will stop the abuse and everything will be fine again. And like the battered spouse, it is learned behavior – conservatives have done their job well.
Is it possible to work your way through J school in a big city and then work your way up in a large news organization these days? Instead of plucky, stalwart young men and woman with a hunger for the truth ,the news trade is just one more cool edgy career choice for the Prep school crowd because wealthy Mom and Dad is the only way anyone can afford it. Talent has nothing to do with it.
That Vietnam riff doesn’t work because it’s a huge sweatshop benefiting the west and providing a partial alternative to the PRC. In other words, we won the war.
As for Afghanistan, it want a complete shithole til we we armed and supported the fundamentalists from which Al’Qaida and the Taliban were birthed — aided by gratuitous jailing and radicalization of some and huge support from our very good ally, Pakistan. But hubris means never learning from or even acknowledging mistakes. BTW: Sleepy Joe Biden forgot to note Monday that his advisers blew a not insignificant amount of smoke up his ass.
I mean sheesh, let's not forget the reason we sent arms is because the Soviets invaded. It wasn't like Afghanistan was wonderful and we decided, for no reason, let's go fuck it up.
No, it was all about acting tough to the Soviets. The price of that bravado was radicalizing and arming Muslims, resulting in a huge growth of Islamic terrorists including the Taliban and ISIS. Did the Reaganites deliberately set in motion the current disaster? Who cares? Like Cheney/Bush’s 2001 invasion, it was fucking stupid, unjustifiable. Ditto the Pentagon’s ignorance about to how to create functional armed forces for a nation with a non-western culture.
You just wait until our home-grown insurrectionists get... I'm sorry, our American patriots.... get into action on behalf of the poor, abandoned Afghans. Sure, you leftists can have your pussy-hat demonstrations with your Cowed Boys, Tote Keepers, and Twee Percenters, but you just wait and see what Real Americans are ready to do, especially for the Ay-rab women. We're gonna be jumpin' right on it, as soon as we're done beating up the communists who aim to vaccinate us against our all-American will.
Gold star for Tote Keepers. And did y'all see the Twitter vid of that stout patriot on the NY subway, chanting "1776!" and "I believe in freedom," as he bullied a woman old enough to be his mother? I wish some rider had pointed out that a) he is an asshole, and b) he seems not to have cared that much about that woman's freedom. Anyway. Twitter found his name in two shakes of a lamb's wiggle, and started asking CarMax (his employer) if they really wanted his kind to work for them. Well, to paraphrase Hyman Roth, "this is the universe we have chosen."
Saw that. Turns out he hasn't worked for CarMax since May, but he's now infamous enough that his career path may be slightly impeded for the moment. It also turns out he was a YAF creep in college, so he's been an asshole for a while, as the YAF tests for that.
A great side effect of the expected influx of migrants: a whole generation of USian police officers once occupying that place have already been trained to shoot Afghani chidren on sight, & that's money saved
FWIW, here's Melik Kaylan (in Forbes) suggesting there may have been more to the pull-out than meets the eye--that maybe it's inhumane and dishonorable LIKE A FOX!
Wow. I hope the Afghanis don't read this. They might get the idea that their country is just an expendable pawn in some kind of cynical geo-political game, in which their lives are less than meaningless. That couldn't possibly be true, wink wink.
"This is a concept that I’m not sure there’s a word in English for..."
Our involvement in Afghanistan was recognizable from the start as a Potemkin Village. We didn't need to send any of our military to achieve the overthrow of the Taliban. They had their enemies in abundance within Afghanistan who did that job for us. Maybe there was some justification for sending in US troops to capture bin Laden so that consequences could be imposed for 9/11, but when we did send in ground forces, they did nothing to corner bin Laden, but instead set about setting up a Potemkin Village Afghan govt for the purpose of making America feel good about itself (or something). The idea that we needed to keep Afghanistan form falling back under the control of a govt that might let al Qaeda have training bases again was always ridiculous, since those training camps trained in small unit tactics that posed no threat to the US, and the Taliban welcoming damned Arab foreigners into the country was one of the reasons that they alienated so many Afghans (who are not, of course, Arabs).
I don't recommend calling this deception "gaslighting". In the movie that term comes from, there is an evil scheme of profiting from Joan Fontaine's fortune that motivates the villain to create his deceptions. There was no actual practical interest for the US in creating in Afghanistan a govt that was always just a prop designed to help some Americans feel better about themselves. There wasn't any oil, and Afghanistan is not even oil-adjacent. Of course the usual suspect businesses were given an opportunity for ill-gotten gains, but it's not as if they needed any more such fields to exploit, or that Afghanistan presented uniquely profitable or exploitable opportunities. Why grift in Afghanistan when there are more riches to be made grifting in healthcare right here in the USA?
That's the key thing about our 20-year involvement in Afghanistan, that it was motivated entirely by the "need" for a mythical kingdom. Why did Catherine the Great need to believe that the development of the Crimea was a brilliant idea that was bringing prosperity and fulfillment to her realm? Who knows. But it was presumably pretty much the same set of vaporous "needs" that sold the scheme of creating a Potemkin Village in Afghanistan to our brilliant strategic thinkers. And because there was no vulgar motive of any sort of actual benefit to the US, they could create the deception without even having to commit consciously to being deceivers.
There are several versions of Gaslight out there, although as near as I could tell, Joan Fontaine was in none of them. I believe the one with Ingrid Bergman is the second
The simple insight that Michael Corleone has in Godfather Part II - that the government soldier fights for pay, but the rebel fights for a cause he believes in, and so the rebels can win - is just nowhere to be seen, even on Liberal MSNBC.
Fill your Octobox with retired Generals and "Security Analysts", and what you'll get is mostly head-scratching about how 75,000 Taliban could defeat 350,000 of the Afghan Army's finest, armed and trained by the bestest army in the world. Maybe it was the lack of air cover?
I actually heard one jackass say the Afghan Army lacked "elan." Damn, that was the problem, should have sent them a few more C-17's full of elan.
"And if absolutely none of this gets considered, at least we'll always have Havana."
So likely it is not even a joke
Grenada, The Reckoning. Those lazy bastards have been laughing at us since we left. I say we hit them hard.
They'll never see it coming.
Back to the Stone Age.
We could just stay home and do a Big Get Even with those pesky Injuns over that Little Big Horn Kerfluffle.
Again. We did that at Wounded Knee back in the 90s. My great great grandad ice skated in their on a frozen creek to take pictures. Sadly, none of the iconic pictures of Wounded Knee were his
I support retaking the South. We already have troops in place and, given the dual catastrophes of pandemic and climate change, the locals will welcome us with open arms.
Regime change in Texas and Florida?
--as liberators. But not...you know...women's liberators.
"We come to light the fires that will burn your bras"
I gotta admit, yesterday's Collapse of Civilization and Massacre of the Innocent in Afganistan certainly took my mind off of the Collapse of Civilization and the Massacre of the innocent here in the (confederate) States.
I'll probably worry about them both today. Plus maybe some Murder Hornets.
It has been discouraging but not very surprising to see the way many political reporters have lunged at the opportunity to harshly criticize Biden in their never-ending quest to convince conservatives of their “neutrality.” You’d think after being cursed at and spit on at Trump rallies for five years they would realize by now there’s nothing they can do to win these people. They are like a battered spouse who believes if she just tweaks her behavior a little more, it will stop the abuse and everything will be fine again. And like the battered spouse, it is learned behavior – conservatives have done their job well.
Is it possible to work your way through J school in a big city and then work your way up in a large news organization these days? Instead of plucky, stalwart young men and woman with a hunger for the truth ,the news trade is just one more cool edgy career choice for the Prep school crowd because wealthy Mom and Dad is the only way anyone can afford it. Talent has nothing to do with it.
That Vietnam riff doesn’t work because it’s a huge sweatshop benefiting the west and providing a partial alternative to the PRC. In other words, we won the war.
As for Afghanistan, it want a complete shithole til we we armed and supported the fundamentalists from which Al’Qaida and the Taliban were birthed — aided by gratuitous jailing and radicalization of some and huge support from our very good ally, Pakistan. But hubris means never learning from or even acknowledging mistakes. BTW: Sleepy Joe Biden forgot to note Monday that his advisers blew a not insignificant amount of smoke up his ass.
To paraphrase one of the old neocons from back in the Iraq days, "Real men invade Pakistan." I mean, what could go wrong?
They got nukes
I mean sheesh, let's not forget the reason we sent arms is because the Soviets invaded. It wasn't like Afghanistan was wonderful and we decided, for no reason, let's go fuck it up.
No, it was all about acting tough to the Soviets. The price of that bravado was radicalizing and arming Muslims, resulting in a huge growth of Islamic terrorists including the Taliban and ISIS. Did the Reaganites deliberately set in motion the current disaster? Who cares? Like Cheney/Bush’s 2001 invasion, it was fucking stupid, unjustifiable. Ditto the Pentagon’s ignorance about to how to create functional armed forces for a nation with a non-western culture.
I believe arming the mujahideen was the idea of Zbigniew Brzezinski working under Pres. J. Carter
"Selected entrants will get a grip-and-grin with this columnist in the paper edition!"
A strange way to describe a hook-up but cool
I was just wondering if that's the conservative version of a reach-around.
The great thing about being conservative is never having to actually give the reach-around
Already been done: https://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/March-2003/The-Sad-Saga-of-Bob-Greene/
You just wait until our home-grown insurrectionists get... I'm sorry, our American patriots.... get into action on behalf of the poor, abandoned Afghans. Sure, you leftists can have your pussy-hat demonstrations with your Cowed Boys, Tote Keepers, and Twee Percenters, but you just wait and see what Real Americans are ready to do, especially for the Ay-rab women. We're gonna be jumpin' right on it, as soon as we're done beating up the communists who aim to vaccinate us against our all-American will.
Gold star for Tote Keepers. And did y'all see the Twitter vid of that stout patriot on the NY subway, chanting "1776!" and "I believe in freedom," as he bullied a woman old enough to be his mother? I wish some rider had pointed out that a) he is an asshole, and b) he seems not to have cared that much about that woman's freedom. Anyway. Twitter found his name in two shakes of a lamb's wiggle, and started asking CarMax (his employer) if they really wanted his kind to work for them. Well, to paraphrase Hyman Roth, "this is the universe we have chosen."
Saw that. Turns out he hasn't worked for CarMax since May, but he's now infamous enough that his career path may be slightly impeded for the moment. It also turns out he was a YAF creep in college, so he's been an asshole for a while, as the YAF tests for that.
A great side effect of the expected influx of migrants: a whole generation of USian police officers once occupying that place have already been trained to shoot Afghani chidren on sight, & that's money saved
(I see this "USian" on twitter, some of the kids seems to like it -- help me out, fellow adult, how does one pronounce it?)
either U S Ian or Ushun -- depends on what you think of Russian electoral interference
Oh! It is a term meant to indicate a US under Russian influence?
No, just recognizing that most of the Americas are not the United States
Or else emphasizing the imperialist nature of the United States
Ah, I see. Okay, I'll stick with US. As in, a generation of US police officers. Seems to get the job done!
Al-Ushun
FWIW, here's Melik Kaylan (in Forbes) suggesting there may have been more to the pull-out than meets the eye--that maybe it's inhumane and dishonorable LIKE A FOX!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2021/08/11/did-the-white-house-knowingly-leave-afghanistan-in-chaos-if-so-what-are-the-possible-outcomes/?sh=2b250ad82a69&fbclid=IwAR11yLS_2Vo0XzcoNhKozf8YUg_CfrknqAgCB9mI488ODy6hO6F4MJ3GIVA
Wow. I hope the Afghanis don't read this. They might get the idea that their country is just an expendable pawn in some kind of cynical geo-political game, in which their lives are less than meaningless. That couldn't possibly be true, wink wink.
Pfft - why not just do a rerun of WWII then? We could invade Germany, Japan and Italy all very easily, I think we already have bases there.
"This is a concept that I’m not sure there’s a word in English for..."
Our involvement in Afghanistan was recognizable from the start as a Potemkin Village. We didn't need to send any of our military to achieve the overthrow of the Taliban. They had their enemies in abundance within Afghanistan who did that job for us. Maybe there was some justification for sending in US troops to capture bin Laden so that consequences could be imposed for 9/11, but when we did send in ground forces, they did nothing to corner bin Laden, but instead set about setting up a Potemkin Village Afghan govt for the purpose of making America feel good about itself (or something). The idea that we needed to keep Afghanistan form falling back under the control of a govt that might let al Qaeda have training bases again was always ridiculous, since those training camps trained in small unit tactics that posed no threat to the US, and the Taliban welcoming damned Arab foreigners into the country was one of the reasons that they alienated so many Afghans (who are not, of course, Arabs).
I don't recommend calling this deception "gaslighting". In the movie that term comes from, there is an evil scheme of profiting from Joan Fontaine's fortune that motivates the villain to create his deceptions. There was no actual practical interest for the US in creating in Afghanistan a govt that was always just a prop designed to help some Americans feel better about themselves. There wasn't any oil, and Afghanistan is not even oil-adjacent. Of course the usual suspect businesses were given an opportunity for ill-gotten gains, but it's not as if they needed any more such fields to exploit, or that Afghanistan presented uniquely profitable or exploitable opportunities. Why grift in Afghanistan when there are more riches to be made grifting in healthcare right here in the USA?
That's the key thing about our 20-year involvement in Afghanistan, that it was motivated entirely by the "need" for a mythical kingdom. Why did Catherine the Great need to believe that the development of the Crimea was a brilliant idea that was bringing prosperity and fulfillment to her realm? Who knows. But it was presumably pretty much the same set of vaporous "needs" that sold the scheme of creating a Potemkin Village in Afghanistan to our brilliant strategic thinkers. And because there was no vulgar motive of any sort of actual benefit to the US, they could create the deception without even having to commit consciously to being deceivers.
Just a niggle. Ingrid Bergman was the victim in “Gaslight.”
There are several versions of Gaslight out there, although as near as I could tell, Joan Fontaine was in none of them. I believe the one with Ingrid Bergman is the second
Angela Lansbury was hot.
Hah, you see, I was trying to gaslight you. But you were too self-confident for my evil plan to work!
"Quemoy and Matsu 2: Electric Boogaloo"
(If we let those 'boys' claim that lame joke as their own, the domestic terrorists win.)
The Gadsden I'm Not _Happy_ with this Purchase and I Want to Speak with Your MANAGER!
The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous.
The simple insight that Michael Corleone has in Godfather Part II - that the government soldier fights for pay, but the rebel fights for a cause he believes in, and so the rebels can win - is just nowhere to be seen, even on Liberal MSNBC.
Fill your Octobox with retired Generals and "Security Analysts", and what you'll get is mostly head-scratching about how 75,000 Taliban could defeat 350,000 of the Afghan Army's finest, armed and trained by the bestest army in the world. Maybe it was the lack of air cover?
I actually heard one jackass say the Afghan Army lacked "elan." Damn, that was the problem, should have sent them a few more C-17's full of elan.