"There are very few spectators in any Kennedy Center audience who feel they have to stand and yell to feel like they got their money’s worth." Wait until Trump's Second Inaugural Ballwashing, in the (of course) freshly-renamed Trump Center. Tickets are already on sale, if you know the right people!
It helps to remember that Vatican II was part of the backdrop of this. For the first time in millennia, the Church was trying to update and address the concerns of congregants. The results pleased few and pissed off many. Those who wanted reform and update were pissed that it did not go far enough. And, of course, those who were against reform went into instant backlash mode.
Also in the background: The smashed hopes of the '60s. From JFK's assassination to RFK's assassination to MLK's assassination to the constant carnage of Viet Nam to the rise of Nixon, everywhere one looked, hope was dying and faith was being trampled by reality.
So if Mass seems a bit confused with an ending that doesn't seem to fit, I think it's more a reflection of what was going on at the time than any fault of its creators.
Sep 19, 2022·edited Sep 19, 2022Liked by Roy Edroso
Thanks for the terrific review. I was taking a music class back then when someone walked in with the score -- IIRC (not a sure thing at my age) it was immense, with an all black cover with "Mass" written in gold gothic lettering, like a new Bible of sorts. The actual music students gathered around the piano to play through it and marvel. Being a hipster rock and roller, I thought this was decidedly uncool, and left them to their study. I've since appreciated bits of the thing over the years, and your review, as all good reviews should, makes me want to go listen to it with a more open mind, which I didn't want to do when it premiered.
I'mo have coffee with a retired professor, formerly head of the english dept at a university that is named after a certain religious entity that plays a prominent role in the show which you've so righteously reviewed. If this post were made public I'd forward it to him...just sayin'. The post pushes all the right buttons (he's an expert on poetry, theater (especially musical theater), and a clear-eyed realist – well grounded in the church, both its positive and negative aspects.
Thanks. I'll chat him up this morning. He may have seen the show already (which, if so, he'll have plenty opinions about).
By the way, I mentioned one of your previous reviews to him. You made a point about the show, with all its faults, still making you want to see what happened next. It reminded me of a review he'd written shortly before that about a different show (an odd remake of Merchant of Venice) that he dismissed, but not before making the point that he was "never bored".
Back when, he sat around in cramped New York apartments shooting the breeze with Bernstein and many others...
I'll be honest- I'm more of an Elmer Bernstein kind of guy. It might just be that I really dislike West Side Story so much I never gave Leonard a second chance. I loved "On the Town" I probably have a thing against " serious" musicals. Lukewarm on Rodgers and Hammerstein too.
I am Shallow.
I gotta admit - your review makes me want to give it a chance.
I love thinking about 8 year old Roy slipping into the neighbor's house to play their records. They are all looking at each other going" I thought you knew him?"
That's not shallow that's "contrarian" and in the best way. You know a lot of real snobs don't even consider musicals music. And Elmer Bernstein is great!
Mr. Bernstein: A fellow will remember a lot of things you wouldn't think he'd remember. You take me. One day, back in 1896, I was crossing over to Jersey on the ferry, and as we pulled out, there was another ferry pulling in, and on it there was a girl waiting to get off. A white dress she had on. She was carrying a white parasol. I only saw her for one second. She didn't see me at all, but I'll bet a month hasn't gone by since that I haven't thought of that girl.
I had a discussion about that quote with someone one night in the eighties- his point was everyone remembers the girl as lovely or striking. All Mr. Bernstein says is she wore a white dress and had a white parasol. We fill in the details.
He also says that a month hasn't gone by that he hasn't thought of that woman. She was evidently quite memorable, which I would say is synonymous with striking
My middle-class Long Island Jewish parents had a copy of the record. They never listened to it in my presence. I assume it was sold to them as “a masterpiece from the creator of West Side Story”.
I’ve still never heard it. From every description I’ve read, I still think, “I say it’s Godspell and I say to hell with it.”
Frankly, the struggles of Christianity in the modern world is not a theme to which I’m likely to warm any time in the foreseeable future.
"I still think, 'I say it's Godspell and I say to hell with it.' Frankly, the struggles of Christianity in the modern world is not a theme to which I’m likely to warm any time in the foreseeable future."
I'm sympathetic to this. (My background is urban Black Protestant; Catholics didn't exactly do outreach in our communities.) Also, you had your Philip Berrigans and James Groppis back then in the civil rights movement, and their bosses were, shall we say, unsympathetic.
Hey! I was your neighbor over in Cleveland. Was in Polish Catholic High School at the time and don't remember this thing at all. "Superstar" was still a thing, though. The ancient priests who only spoke Polish and Latin had been replaced by seminarians with acoustic guitars. Anyway, I was well into the 'fuck this bullshit' stage of my faith so it didn't really matter anyway.
Looked up the wiki on the Mass, and it's pretty wild. Jacki-O, Paul Simon , [ where was Dylan?] a blues band ........
"The Federal Bureau of Investigation kept a file on Bernstein because of his leftist views. In the summer of 1971, the Bureau warned the White House that the Latin text of Mass might contain anti-war messages, which could cause embarrassment to President Nixon should he attend the premiere and applaud politely. Rumors of such a plot by Bernstein were leaked to the press. According to Gordon Liddy, White House counsel John Dean stated that the work was "definitely anti-war and anti-establishment, etc."
I assume you are laughing at real nerds, as should we all, except for those of us who know the 23 volumes of the Warren Report and exhibits verbatim. I am warning you:
I saw Yannick Nezet-Seguin and the Philly Orchestra do this a few years ago and was not impressed enough by the music to care about the performance. But after reading this, I'll go back to the piece and try again. Maybe my memories of the initial reception got in the way.
Was it a concert performance? It might make a difference to see it played. Bernstein described it as a "theatre piece for singers, players, and dancers."
I saw it in 1971 or '72 at the Mark Taper Forum in the Los Angeles Music Center. I'm not Catholic btw but I was deeply moved by it. At the end, it was so beautiful that tears were running down my face, and as I got up to go from my aisle seat, I realized that Leonard Bernstein had been sitting right across the aisle from me. I stepped up to him, still sniffling, and said, "Oh, Mr. Bernstein, that was wonderful," or something like that, and he actually threw his arms around me and hugged me. I'm so glad you liked it, Roy.
Serendipitously, my random play-stuff-I-haven't-listened-to-in-a-while list popped out "Mass" last week, and like you I was re-enthralled with it. I too was shocked by how relevant the emotional/political statements were, and I ended up listening to the whole thing.
"There are very few spectators in any Kennedy Center audience who feel they have to stand and yell to feel like they got their money’s worth." Wait until Trump's Second Inaugural Ballwashing, in the (of course) freshly-renamed Trump Center. Tickets are already on sale, if you know the right people!
This is a meaning of "the right people" with which I was previously unfamiliar.
Tickets are for cucks. Grab a riot shield off a cop and smash your way in.
That's the spirit!
Refraining from masturbation will give you all the testosterone you need!
Purity Of Essence II: Meet The New Trump Same As The Old Trump Boogaloo
Yeah, it's like Gavin McInnes watched Dr. Strangelove and didn't understand it was satire.
Plus, if Father Guido is correct, you'll save 25 cents!
Steal This Nation!
It helps to remember that Vatican II was part of the backdrop of this. For the first time in millennia, the Church was trying to update and address the concerns of congregants. The results pleased few and pissed off many. Those who wanted reform and update were pissed that it did not go far enough. And, of course, those who were against reform went into instant backlash mode.
Also in the background: The smashed hopes of the '60s. From JFK's assassination to RFK's assassination to MLK's assassination to the constant carnage of Viet Nam to the rise of Nixon, everywhere one looked, hope was dying and faith was being trampled by reality.
So if Mass seems a bit confused with an ending that doesn't seem to fit, I think it's more a reflection of what was going on at the time than any fault of its creators.
Backlash mode like the tradcath movement?
The article Roy linked to said Catholic conservatives believe the church isn't so popular any more because the Mass isn't in Latin. Seems logical.
Let's pretend that Wycliffe never happened. Back before the Reformation -- which some Caths still call the "Lutheran heresy"
Yeah, it wasn't like there was a big to do about buggery
Thanks for the terrific review. I was taking a music class back then when someone walked in with the score -- IIRC (not a sure thing at my age) it was immense, with an all black cover with "Mass" written in gold gothic lettering, like a new Bible of sorts. The actual music students gathered around the piano to play through it and marvel. Being a hipster rock and roller, I thought this was decidedly uncool, and left them to their study. I've since appreciated bits of the thing over the years, and your review, as all good reviews should, makes me want to go listen to it with a more open mind, which I didn't want to do when it premiered.
I'mo have coffee with a retired professor, formerly head of the english dept at a university that is named after a certain religious entity that plays a prominent role in the show which you've so righteously reviewed. If this post were made public I'd forward it to him...just sayin'. The post pushes all the right buttons (he's an expert on poetry, theater (especially musical theater), and a clear-eyed realist – well grounded in the church, both its positive and negative aspects.
I can't make them all available on the site, but you can always forward the emails to non-subscribers if you like.
Oh hell, I guess I will make this one public -- I don't do it that often.
Thanks. I'll chat him up this morning. He may have seen the show already (which, if so, he'll have plenty opinions about).
By the way, I mentioned one of your previous reviews to him. You made a point about the show, with all its faults, still making you want to see what happened next. It reminded me of a review he'd written shortly before that about a different show (an odd remake of Merchant of Venice) that he dismissed, but not before making the point that he was "never bored".
Back when, he sat around in cramped New York apartments shooting the breeze with Bernstein and many others...
I'll be honest- I'm more of an Elmer Bernstein kind of guy. It might just be that I really dislike West Side Story so much I never gave Leonard a second chance. I loved "On the Town" I probably have a thing against " serious" musicals. Lukewarm on Rodgers and Hammerstein too.
I am Shallow.
I gotta admit - your review makes me want to give it a chance.
I love thinking about 8 year old Roy slipping into the neighbor's house to play their records. They are all looking at each other going" I thought you knew him?"
That's not shallow that's "contrarian" and in the best way. You know a lot of real snobs don't even consider musicals music. And Elmer Bernstein is great!
"... lot of real snobs don't even consider musicals music."
What th' fuck is opera, then?
I think you mean "What's opera, Doc?"
"Kiww da wabbit, Kiww da wabbit..."
"Oh Bwunhilde, you're so wovewy."
"Yes I know it...I can't help it."
Big ladies with horned helmets singing in a furrin' language>
Contraria for the Contrarians!
But Roy, where do you stand on the all-important Jesus Christ Superstar issue?
Wow, I gotta write about that sometime!
I thought Elmer Bernstein was the glue guy. I am such a Philistine, you can call me Goliath
Creator of the Bernstein Bears book series for the toddler crowd?
There's only one Mr. Bernstein to my mind -
Mr. Bernstein: A fellow will remember a lot of things you wouldn't think he'd remember. You take me. One day, back in 1896, I was crossing over to Jersey on the ferry, and as we pulled out, there was another ferry pulling in, and on it there was a girl waiting to get off. A white dress she had on. She was carrying a white parasol. I only saw her for one second. She didn't see me at all, but I'll bet a month hasn't gone by since that I haven't thought of that girl.
I had a discussion about that quote with someone one night in the eighties- his point was everyone remembers the girl as lovely or striking. All Mr. Bernstein says is she wore a white dress and had a white parasol. We fill in the details.
He also says that a month hasn't gone by that he hasn't thought of that woman. She was evidently quite memorable, which I would say is synonymous with striking
My middle-class Long Island Jewish parents had a copy of the record. They never listened to it in my presence. I assume it was sold to them as “a masterpiece from the creator of West Side Story”.
I’ve still never heard it. From every description I’ve read, I still think, “I say it’s Godspell and I say to hell with it.”
Frankly, the struggles of Christianity in the modern world is not a theme to which I’m likely to warm any time in the foreseeable future.
"I still think, 'I say it's Godspell and I say to hell with it.' Frankly, the struggles of Christianity in the modern world is not a theme to which I’m likely to warm any time in the foreseeable future."
I'm sympathetic to this. (My background is urban Black Protestant; Catholics didn't exactly do outreach in our communities.) Also, you had your Philip Berrigans and James Groppis back then in the civil rights movement, and their bosses were, shall we say, unsympathetic.
When the radical priest
Come to get me released
We was all on the cover of Newsweek
That's about all the Catholicism I can tolerate in a musical, sorry.
The boys' choir alone is majestically tragic...
Or was it tragically majestic...
"Gospel" = OE "gōd-spel" [Good message] = a calque-word for the Greek "eu-angelos" & Latin "evangelist"
I love calque words. Used to be very common in OE.
I never saw this but my 7th grade music teacher used to play Gloria Tibi often so I liked that.
Hey! I was your neighbor over in Cleveland. Was in Polish Catholic High School at the time and don't remember this thing at all. "Superstar" was still a thing, though. The ancient priests who only spoke Polish and Latin had been replaced by seminarians with acoustic guitars. Anyway, I was well into the 'fuck this bullshit' stage of my faith so it didn't really matter anyway.
Looked up the wiki on the Mass, and it's pretty wild. Jacki-O, Paul Simon , [ where was Dylan?] a blues band ........
"The Federal Bureau of Investigation kept a file on Bernstein because of his leftist views. In the summer of 1971, the Bureau warned the White House that the Latin text of Mass might contain anti-war messages, which could cause embarrassment to President Nixon should he attend the premiere and applaud politely. Rumors of such a plot by Bernstein were leaked to the press. According to Gordon Liddy, White House counsel John Dean stated that the work was "definitely anti-war and anti-establishment, etc."
Premature anti-anti-fascists.
Look, we can tolerate a lot of things in the name of free speech. But anti-war sentiments expressed IN LATIN, well, that's just taking things too far.
I’m mad about the image not being flat enough…HMPH!😤
This is not the level of customer service I had been led to expect.
SAME!
You're lucky I'm not shooting this shit in a plastic bag like a REAL nerd.
ROTFL! 😂
I assume you are laughing at real nerds, as should we all, except for those of us who know the 23 volumes of the Warren Report and exhibits verbatim. I am warning you:
Do.
NOT.
Laugh.
At.
US.
😆 = a giggle, NOT a laugh!
PS - I’m a Nerd too👍🏾
Stifle!
Oh AAAAAARCHIEEE!
Never heard of this show Roy, so thanks for sharing. You seem to have quite the theater critic in you! Glad you enjoyed yourself.
High praise indeed.
I saw Yannick Nezet-Seguin and the Philly Orchestra do this a few years ago and was not impressed enough by the music to care about the performance. But after reading this, I'll go back to the piece and try again. Maybe my memories of the initial reception got in the way.
Was it a concert performance? It might make a difference to see it played. Bernstein described it as a "theatre piece for singers, players, and dancers."
Semi-staged
I saw it in 1971 or '72 at the Mark Taper Forum in the Los Angeles Music Center. I'm not Catholic btw but I was deeply moved by it. At the end, it was so beautiful that tears were running down my face, and as I got up to go from my aisle seat, I realized that Leonard Bernstein had been sitting right across the aisle from me. I stepped up to him, still sniffling, and said, "Oh, Mr. Bernstein, that was wonderful," or something like that, and he actually threw his arms around me and hugged me. I'm so glad you liked it, Roy.
!
Exactly...
Serendipitously, my random play-stuff-I-haven't-listened-to-in-a-while list popped out "Mass" last week, and like you I was re-enthralled with it. I too was shocked by how relevant the emotional/political statements were, and I ended up listening to the whole thing.