I am surrounded by these people. We are all civil. I think the word gets around I take no shit and will vigorously embarass them with their ignorance. Nobody talks Trump shit around me at work..The in-laws don't fuck with me either.
I truly feel sorry for young people today for many reasons, but one is they’ve never been an adult during any sort of “normal” time. I’m not waxing nostalgic for the bad old days, I’m just pointing out that while various people and institutions and political parties always sucked, there was a time when most of them acknowledged it was necessary to at least *pretend* not to suck. Hypocrisy being the tribute that vice pays to virtue and all that.
My sons are in their mid 20s, so they are Elder Zoomers, and over the holiday weekend we were talking about that Jordan Peterson clip where he quotes a speech by a James Bond villain as if it were historical fact. We all agreed he’s loopy, but I found myself trying to explain to them that even 12 to 15 years ago we would likely never have known a character like that existed. A culturally conservative psychologist who spouted nonsense as a self-styled life coach, wept at the drop of a hat, became addicted to anti-anxiety meds, travelled to Russia to be put into a coma for an experimental “cure,” lived on an all-meat diet because of some made-up food sensitivities, and dressed like the Joker would have been laughed out of his profession and have only a small cult following at best. If he made a big splash with some bizarre activity he might rate one line in a late-night talk show host’s monologue. He would not have become wealthy, have a huge platform, or have a couple of million young men following his “advice.”
Idiocracy, mendacity, easily disprovable bullshit all the way down. Conservatives were ALWAYS bad, but now just feels…different.
Perhaps y'all saw the bizarre exchange on the Platform Formerly Known as Twitter, where 6/1 indictee Jeffery Clark is attacking Burning Man (and Neil Kaytal, who's Hindu) for participating in a neo Pagan ritual.
I've seen plenty of a Conservative blovater attacking art stuff as "blasphemy" as if it were an actual crime, and not in the view of the beholder. It's almost a trope: anything that might stir people outside the Kinder, Küche, Kirche sentiment (and abusive sentimentality) of the Right must be...SATAN!
I will say Burning Man's debacle (on a playa lake bed with alkali mud) reminds me why I don't go camping any more, since I wrecked the Stretch van I could put a mattress in.
Maybe it will be salutary for some of the more Libertarian/anti government type to see what good some governance and public goods can be: because you will eventually need 'em.
I’ve always suspected that a lot of both these phenomena are, when you dig down far enough, motivated by race. “Friendship” is being used as code for “racial solidarity.” I’m white, you’re white, the blahs will kill us both when the ball drops, why can’t you get along with me??? And all the doom mongering is about making it look like that ball is/has dropped.
Once you’ve abandoned truth, in support of your sole principle which is preservation of your power, it’s not surprising you would be as strategically and cynically mendacious as possible. This has been true of the GOP and especially the conservative movement for decades; but today’s REBID illustrates how it has exponentially consumed them. Trump was a match thrown onto the combustibles already there in the undergrowth. The behavior Roy describes is one of the ways this is manifested. Conflagrations ultimately burn themselves out. The question remains how much damage will result and whether we can rebuild.
I appreciate your labeling of the link: (No, I’m not kidding.) Because if you'd written something like (No, really – you should read it!) I might have.
And not to be pedantic (oh what the hell, whyforsoevernot?), Burning Man's roots are not in fact grassy (tho I see what you did there) – it's sandy all the way down to the original, on the beach in San Francisco...
“This is most easily seen in the way conservatives get in a huff when liberals don’t grant them the friendship they feel themselves owed, as seen in this 2021 column by Tim Graham of NewsBusters, the premise of which is that liberals are intolerant bullies for not being pals with people like Tim Graham.”
Sorry, I prefer not to be friends with a bunch of ignorant fascists! Is that soooo wrong??????? Additionally, have they considered they’re just not that “interesting?”
“And of course there's the weirdly common male conservative complaint that liberal women won't go out with them, as expressed in essays with titles like "Your Refusal To Date Conservatives Is One Reason We Have Donald Trump."”
Is this a “chicken and the egg” conundrum? I think not! Perhaps, Trump and his “grab them by the p.....remark and his overall misogyny, could be to blame. Or the fact, that most of the men complaining are misogynistic INCEL’s!!!!!
The next town over can't find any Repubs to run for mayor. Of course, they blame the Democrats. “Republican candidates have unjustly been called racists, sexists, homophobes, xenophobes and Nazis in addition to other vicious attacks on social media. It has become increasingly difficult to find Republican candidate who want to subject themselves to the personal character assassinations from the Democrat chairman and others.”
"But if you’ve been around since the 1960s and paying attention, you’ll know what I mean."
FIFY.
As for the ebola crisis of 2014: If one was paying attention -- so few cases, so much hysteria from Republicans -- one couldn't understand what exactly the hysteria was about. The tell was the crisis dropping out of the establishment news within ~24 hours of the election held the day before.
Bonus fun fact: IIRC, the response by the foreign-born muslim's administration was to set up protocols in case of a pandemic. Which were trashed upon his successor's taking office.
As for dealing with conservatives: Be polite in the first instance and walk away if they start getting poorly behaved. Now, respect for them is a whole other issue. This -- https://kolektiva.social/@HeavenlyPossum/110989789650647995 -- is on them. So, you know, good manners and all that; no more than they deserve.
Hey, remember when they were mocking the US women's soccer team for losing? This is a party that's hemorrhaging votes from women, and I'm not saying a silly thing like this would be decisive in the 2024 election (or even that anyone will remember it by then) but a thing that Democratic politicians think obsessively: "Will this thing I'm about to say offend any particular voter demographic?" is a thought they simply refuse to think, out of principle.
For conservative men, the aimed-at archetype is Savvy Man, picture him in jeans wearing a white t-shirt with a pack of Lucky's rolled up in the sleeve, leaning against the fender of his cherry '57 Chevy, tossing his LOL's and LMFAO's at life's passing parade.
"I didn't go to this thing, which is turning out to be an extremely savvy call on my part", Savvy Man thinks as he heads to Twitter to boast of his savviness.
Having liberal friends legitimizes Trump etc. Some folks want a dignified, competent present, others want a narcissistic, boorish capo who says shit like "I am your retribution" against, well, the liberal friend. He tolerates nothing less than fawning submission or he goes APESHIT, which is not just OK but stellar. The "conservative" submits to Trump and, extending the hierarchy downward, merits the unconditional submission of the liberal friend. Being nice to the liberal friend is an act of grace, wholly undeserved; it demonstrates that the "conservative" is magnanimous.
WaPo had a piece “a liberal and a conservative can agree on this one thing,” with Theissen the conservative and some unknown (to me) liberal. It was of the “we disagree about abortion but agree pregnant women need medical care, food and a place to live” ilk and said Congress should enact a bunch of Republican legislation. The comments were, as always, basically “fuck you, Theissen!” WaPo is going to need a less notorious con than Torture Boy if they want to see their liberal readers be friendlier.
It's assholes riding turtles all the way down. I'm not up on the Republican's time in the wilderness from FDR to Eisenhower, so I don't know how much conspiracy theory they embraced (beyond insisting Roosevelt was Jewish) but from the Birchers on, conspiracy was always in the mix as a response to being out of power. But as their grip tightend and more star systems slipped through their fingers, they embraced conspiracy while in power, and gaming the system as a necessity for maintaining power. I think somewhere in their bitter hearts they know this is not tenable and they want that public approval, that friendship, that blowjob from the barista, as yet another way to paper over the gap between the world they have created and reality. I keep calling them Ghost Dancers because the only explanation for their behavior is they are trying to will their reality into existence because they see no other option. To compromise is to be put in camps, their religion made illegal, their property, homes and wealth taken away, their children renamed and brainwashed into forgetting their culture and history. Like slavers fearing revolt by slaves, they fear being done to them what they would do if positions were reversed.
"Keeping and eye on this situation. Will bring reports as I get more."
I love it when two-bit "#Trump2024 Jesus Is KING!" wingnuts like "The Patriot Voice" say stuff like this. They fancy themselves as actual journalists uncovering deep truths when their "reporting" consists of Michael Flynn retweets and links to Laura Loomer "investigations."
"frothing horror" does have certain flair.
I am surrounded by these people. We are all civil. I think the word gets around I take no shit and will vigorously embarass them with their ignorance. Nobody talks Trump shit around me at work..The in-laws don't fuck with me either.
I think I know what you mean, Roy.
I truly feel sorry for young people today for many reasons, but one is they’ve never been an adult during any sort of “normal” time. I’m not waxing nostalgic for the bad old days, I’m just pointing out that while various people and institutions and political parties always sucked, there was a time when most of them acknowledged it was necessary to at least *pretend* not to suck. Hypocrisy being the tribute that vice pays to virtue and all that.
My sons are in their mid 20s, so they are Elder Zoomers, and over the holiday weekend we were talking about that Jordan Peterson clip where he quotes a speech by a James Bond villain as if it were historical fact. We all agreed he’s loopy, but I found myself trying to explain to them that even 12 to 15 years ago we would likely never have known a character like that existed. A culturally conservative psychologist who spouted nonsense as a self-styled life coach, wept at the drop of a hat, became addicted to anti-anxiety meds, travelled to Russia to be put into a coma for an experimental “cure,” lived on an all-meat diet because of some made-up food sensitivities, and dressed like the Joker would have been laughed out of his profession and have only a small cult following at best. If he made a big splash with some bizarre activity he might rate one line in a late-night talk show host’s monologue. He would not have become wealthy, have a huge platform, or have a couple of million young men following his “advice.”
Idiocracy, mendacity, easily disprovable bullshit all the way down. Conservatives were ALWAYS bad, but now just feels…different.
Perhaps y'all saw the bizarre exchange on the Platform Formerly Known as Twitter, where 6/1 indictee Jeffery Clark is attacking Burning Man (and Neil Kaytal, who's Hindu) for participating in a neo Pagan ritual.
I've seen plenty of a Conservative blovater attacking art stuff as "blasphemy" as if it were an actual crime, and not in the view of the beholder. It's almost a trope: anything that might stir people outside the Kinder, Küche, Kirche sentiment (and abusive sentimentality) of the Right must be...SATAN!
I will say Burning Man's debacle (on a playa lake bed with alkali mud) reminds me why I don't go camping any more, since I wrecked the Stretch van I could put a mattress in.
Maybe it will be salutary for some of the more Libertarian/anti government type to see what good some governance and public goods can be: because you will eventually need 'em.
I’ve always suspected that a lot of both these phenomena are, when you dig down far enough, motivated by race. “Friendship” is being used as code for “racial solidarity.” I’m white, you’re white, the blahs will kill us both when the ball drops, why can’t you get along with me??? And all the doom mongering is about making it look like that ball is/has dropped.
Once you’ve abandoned truth, in support of your sole principle which is preservation of your power, it’s not surprising you would be as strategically and cynically mendacious as possible. This has been true of the GOP and especially the conservative movement for decades; but today’s REBID illustrates how it has exponentially consumed them. Trump was a match thrown onto the combustibles already there in the undergrowth. The behavior Roy describes is one of the ways this is manifested. Conflagrations ultimately burn themselves out. The question remains how much damage will result and whether we can rebuild.
I appreciate your labeling of the link: (No, I’m not kidding.) Because if you'd written something like (No, really – you should read it!) I might have.
And not to be pedantic (oh what the hell, whyforsoevernot?), Burning Man's roots are not in fact grassy (tho I see what you did there) – it's sandy all the way down to the original, on the beach in San Francisco...
“This is most easily seen in the way conservatives get in a huff when liberals don’t grant them the friendship they feel themselves owed, as seen in this 2021 column by Tim Graham of NewsBusters, the premise of which is that liberals are intolerant bullies for not being pals with people like Tim Graham.”
Sorry, I prefer not to be friends with a bunch of ignorant fascists! Is that soooo wrong??????? Additionally, have they considered they’re just not that “interesting?”
“And of course there's the weirdly common male conservative complaint that liberal women won't go out with them, as expressed in essays with titles like "Your Refusal To Date Conservatives Is One Reason We Have Donald Trump."”
Is this a “chicken and the egg” conundrum? I think not! Perhaps, Trump and his “grab them by the p.....remark and his overall misogyny, could be to blame. Or the fact, that most of the men complaining are misogynistic INCEL’s!!!!!
I leave it at that....:)
The next town over can't find any Repubs to run for mayor. Of course, they blame the Democrats. “Republican candidates have unjustly been called racists, sexists, homophobes, xenophobes and Nazis in addition to other vicious attacks on social media. It has become increasingly difficult to find Republican candidate who want to subject themselves to the personal character assassinations from the Democrat chairman and others.”
"But if you’ve been around since the 1960s and paying attention, you’ll know what I mean."
FIFY.
As for the ebola crisis of 2014: If one was paying attention -- so few cases, so much hysteria from Republicans -- one couldn't understand what exactly the hysteria was about. The tell was the crisis dropping out of the establishment news within ~24 hours of the election held the day before.
Bonus fun fact: IIRC, the response by the foreign-born muslim's administration was to set up protocols in case of a pandemic. Which were trashed upon his successor's taking office.
As for dealing with conservatives: Be polite in the first instance and walk away if they start getting poorly behaved. Now, respect for them is a whole other issue. This -- https://kolektiva.social/@HeavenlyPossum/110989789650647995 -- is on them. So, you know, good manners and all that; no more than they deserve.
Hey, remember when they were mocking the US women's soccer team for losing? This is a party that's hemorrhaging votes from women, and I'm not saying a silly thing like this would be decisive in the 2024 election (or even that anyone will remember it by then) but a thing that Democratic politicians think obsessively: "Will this thing I'm about to say offend any particular voter demographic?" is a thought they simply refuse to think, out of principle.
For conservative men, the aimed-at archetype is Savvy Man, picture him in jeans wearing a white t-shirt with a pack of Lucky's rolled up in the sleeve, leaning against the fender of his cherry '57 Chevy, tossing his LOL's and LMFAO's at life's passing parade.
"I didn't go to this thing, which is turning out to be an extremely savvy call on my part", Savvy Man thinks as he heads to Twitter to boast of his savviness.
Having liberal friends legitimizes Trump etc. Some folks want a dignified, competent present, others want a narcissistic, boorish capo who says shit like "I am your retribution" against, well, the liberal friend. He tolerates nothing less than fawning submission or he goes APESHIT, which is not just OK but stellar. The "conservative" submits to Trump and, extending the hierarchy downward, merits the unconditional submission of the liberal friend. Being nice to the liberal friend is an act of grace, wholly undeserved; it demonstrates that the "conservative" is magnanimous.
WaPo had a piece “a liberal and a conservative can agree on this one thing,” with Theissen the conservative and some unknown (to me) liberal. It was of the “we disagree about abortion but agree pregnant women need medical care, food and a place to live” ilk and said Congress should enact a bunch of Republican legislation. The comments were, as always, basically “fuck you, Theissen!” WaPo is going to need a less notorious con than Torture Boy if they want to see their liberal readers be friendlier.
So these are the same people who said COVID was no big deal?
It's assholes riding turtles all the way down. I'm not up on the Republican's time in the wilderness from FDR to Eisenhower, so I don't know how much conspiracy theory they embraced (beyond insisting Roosevelt was Jewish) but from the Birchers on, conspiracy was always in the mix as a response to being out of power. But as their grip tightend and more star systems slipped through their fingers, they embraced conspiracy while in power, and gaming the system as a necessity for maintaining power. I think somewhere in their bitter hearts they know this is not tenable and they want that public approval, that friendship, that blowjob from the barista, as yet another way to paper over the gap between the world they have created and reality. I keep calling them Ghost Dancers because the only explanation for their behavior is they are trying to will their reality into existence because they see no other option. To compromise is to be put in camps, their religion made illegal, their property, homes and wealth taken away, their children renamed and brainwashed into forgetting their culture and history. Like slavers fearing revolt by slaves, they fear being done to them what they would do if positions were reversed.
"Keeping and eye on this situation. Will bring reports as I get more."
I love it when two-bit "#Trump2024 Jesus Is KING!" wingnuts like "The Patriot Voice" say stuff like this. They fancy themselves as actual journalists uncovering deep truths when their "reporting" consists of Michael Flynn retweets and links to Laura Loomer "investigations."