Do we know how Trump "prepped" for this debate? Meaning, we know that he gave his team COVID when preparing for the first one and who was involved, but what about this time? Really feels like it was minimal, if anything at all.
There are probably going to be a dispiriting number of pundits who take the “Trump didn’t shit both sides of the bed so he was presidential” line tomorrow. But I don’t think anybody will even remember this debate two days from now.
And unfortunately yeah, I think a majority of the people who thought it was cool in 2016 still think it’s cool. And we DO have a bad problem that will extend well beyond election day. Assuming Biden wins (and I assume nothing) his victory may shut them up for a while but it’s not going to make them go away. I’m not sure what the solution is.
The short answer to the last question is: it no longer matters. The equation is: Fox News + tribalism + the refusal to admit you've been conned = continued support.
One day I'd love for someone to actually ask Trump if there is anything he won't lie about, because tonight was a doozy. The problem is that many if not most people have no idea he's lying to them ALL THE TIME. They might know enough to discern that a few things are bullshit, and a few others are fishy, but they can't be expected to know the actual facts of everything Trump is lying about. Even allegedly informed media types let so many things slide because they aren't equipped with enough knowledge to contradict him -- hey, it's only their job but whatever.
"If they do, then no matter what happens on Election Day we have a bad problem."
Exactly. That Trump is president and even on this debate stage is depressing, but the most disheartening thing about these endless four years is the realization that millions of our fellow Americans are so stupid, so racist, so selfish, so naive, so -something- that they still can't tell the difference between Trump and a real president, or for that matter, a decent human being. And thousands have suffered and died for their willful blindness, with thousands more to come -- Trump's evil legacy no matter who is elected.
Can I just say Mortimer 2018, "...the most disheartening thing about these endless four years is the realization that (many) millions of .... Americans are so stupid, so racist, so selfish, so naive, so -something- (determinedly ignorant, violent, aggressive, callous, malicious, vindictive) that they still can't tell the difference between Trump and a real president, or for that matter, a decent human being (or that they don't care about any of that; they're happy to have a bullying, sadistic misanthrope in charge as long as it insults thinking people's intelligence and humanity and sneers their version of 'American exceptionalism' at everybody else in the world).
I didn't watch. At the last second I veered off and watched Borat instead. It is a bit weak, but there are a couple of horrifying/great moments in it, and Maria Bakalova, who plays his daughter, is a perfect match for Cohen, with a similar comic sincerity and the crucial all-out commitment to the bit. She's fantastic. The Rudy scene, though, is -- bleak. Yes, it's bad that he is so easy to blackmail. But what hit me was that, as a human being, he is... not a natural. And clearly he is hoping that she is going to make a move on him. I don't think he was going to make the move. But I do think he would have stayed in that bedroom forever, hoping. The scene is just... fucking bleak.
Watched "The Horror of Dracula" early last night (1958 Hammer), although the movie finished early enough to watch the debate, we decided that one horror a night was enough.
By the way I've been thinking that we as a people are clearly not capable or ready for self governance and we should be under some sort of protectorate like the League of Nations used to do for the lesser breeds without the law. Because that is certainly what we are.
"The people who thought when he did this in 2016, ha, that’s cool, I love when he pops his eyes and saws his arms, it’s great he’s just socking it to those assholes — do they still think it’s cool? If they do, then no matter what happens on Election Day we have a bad problem."
Maybe. The base and Republican-leaners are locked in mostly although I think there's some erosion (and deaths the young are failing to replace) but I'd like to think essentially all of the rest of the independent voters who went for Donnie in 2016 are lost; killing and impoverishing Americans aren't winners for most people. Surprising factoid: Most voters know shit about politics. OTOH, Trump and his party's failings are pretty obvious.
The real problem is Biden with a red Senate under Moscow Mitch's control.
Biden's not an orator like Kennedy or Obama but he's not without eloquence. It's just of a very different kind, and it's humble. Humble, and somehow intimate (as Clyburn said, "We know Joe, and he knows us"). Every time he tells a story about his father (addressing him as "Joey" or "honey") he projects sweetness and simplicity. I doubt he's anywhere near as sweet and simple as that, but I love the way he asks you to not focus on how important he is. I'm not blaming Obama for not doing it--as the black candidate he was forced into self-importance for what he represented--but I'm so ready for the thing Joe does, inviting us in and hoping we're comfortable.
I watched Stephen Colbert talk with Bruce Springsteen, then moved over to several Three Stooges shorts with yesterday’s birthday boy, Curly Howard. It was good.
Trump didn't seriously prep for the debate. He relies on his constant gish galloping, word salad talking style as he has from the earliest days of his 2016 campaign. Despite the GOP's hopes that he would pivot to being presidential, he hasn't, he won't and, indeed, he can't. What he has done is to drag the standard of the presidency down well past the previous low levels of George W. Bush, Warren G. Harding or James Buchanan.
Joe Biden is not a great orator and never will be one. If he does get elected and doesn't' get de-elected by the SCOTUS, he will be forced to become more than the mediocre Democrat that he mostly has been throughout his career because the urgency of these times and the Democratic Party will force him to be.
Reading your description, I wonder for the first time how much of what Trump says is rooted not just in a bullshitter's not caring what he says, but also in a bored rich kid's not ever being interested in what other people are saying so it all comes out to him as a melange of stuff that he can then theink positively into something he can use.
Do we know how Trump "prepped" for this debate? Meaning, we know that he gave his team COVID when preparing for the first one and who was involved, but what about this time? Really feels like it was minimal, if anything at all.
There are probably going to be a dispiriting number of pundits who take the “Trump didn’t shit both sides of the bed so he was presidential” line tomorrow. But I don’t think anybody will even remember this debate two days from now.
And unfortunately yeah, I think a majority of the people who thought it was cool in 2016 still think it’s cool. And we DO have a bad problem that will extend well beyond election day. Assuming Biden wins (and I assume nothing) his victory may shut them up for a while but it’s not going to make them go away. I’m not sure what the solution is.
The short answer to the last question is: it no longer matters. The equation is: Fox News + tribalism + the refusal to admit you've been conned = continued support.
One day I'd love for someone to actually ask Trump if there is anything he won't lie about, because tonight was a doozy. The problem is that many if not most people have no idea he's lying to them ALL THE TIME. They might know enough to discern that a few things are bullshit, and a few others are fishy, but they can't be expected to know the actual facts of everything Trump is lying about. Even allegedly informed media types let so many things slide because they aren't equipped with enough knowledge to contradict him -- hey, it's only their job but whatever.
"If they do, then no matter what happens on Election Day we have a bad problem."
Exactly. That Trump is president and even on this debate stage is depressing, but the most disheartening thing about these endless four years is the realization that millions of our fellow Americans are so stupid, so racist, so selfish, so naive, so -something- that they still can't tell the difference between Trump and a real president, or for that matter, a decent human being. And thousands have suffered and died for their willful blindness, with thousands more to come -- Trump's evil legacy no matter who is elected.
Can I just say Mortimer 2018, "...the most disheartening thing about these endless four years is the realization that (many) millions of .... Americans are so stupid, so racist, so selfish, so naive, so -something- (determinedly ignorant, violent, aggressive, callous, malicious, vindictive) that they still can't tell the difference between Trump and a real president, or for that matter, a decent human being (or that they don't care about any of that; they're happy to have a bullying, sadistic misanthrope in charge as long as it insults thinking people's intelligence and humanity and sneers their version of 'American exceptionalism' at everybody else in the world).
Sorry.
I didn't watch. At the last second I veered off and watched Borat instead. It is a bit weak, but there are a couple of horrifying/great moments in it, and Maria Bakalova, who plays his daughter, is a perfect match for Cohen, with a similar comic sincerity and the crucial all-out commitment to the bit. She's fantastic. The Rudy scene, though, is -- bleak. Yes, it's bad that he is so easy to blackmail. But what hit me was that, as a human being, he is... not a natural. And clearly he is hoping that she is going to make a move on him. I don't think he was going to make the move. But I do think he would have stayed in that bedroom forever, hoping. The scene is just... fucking bleak.
Watched "The Horror of Dracula" early last night (1958 Hammer), although the movie finished early enough to watch the debate, we decided that one horror a night was enough.
By the way I've been thinking that we as a people are clearly not capable or ready for self governance and we should be under some sort of protectorate like the League of Nations used to do for the lesser breeds without the law. Because that is certainly what we are.
"The people who thought when he did this in 2016, ha, that’s cool, I love when he pops his eyes and saws his arms, it’s great he’s just socking it to those assholes — do they still think it’s cool? If they do, then no matter what happens on Election Day we have a bad problem."
Maybe. The base and Republican-leaners are locked in mostly although I think there's some erosion (and deaths the young are failing to replace) but I'd like to think essentially all of the rest of the independent voters who went for Donnie in 2016 are lost; killing and impoverishing Americans aren't winners for most people. Surprising factoid: Most voters know shit about politics. OTOH, Trump and his party's failings are pretty obvious.
The real problem is Biden with a red Senate under Moscow Mitch's control.
Biden's not an orator like Kennedy or Obama but he's not without eloquence. It's just of a very different kind, and it's humble. Humble, and somehow intimate (as Clyburn said, "We know Joe, and he knows us"). Every time he tells a story about his father (addressing him as "Joey" or "honey") he projects sweetness and simplicity. I doubt he's anywhere near as sweet and simple as that, but I love the way he asks you to not focus on how important he is. I'm not blaming Obama for not doing it--as the black candidate he was forced into self-importance for what he represented--but I'm so ready for the thing Joe does, inviting us in and hoping we're comfortable.
I watched Stephen Colbert talk with Bruce Springsteen, then moved over to several Three Stooges shorts with yesterday’s birthday boy, Curly Howard. It was good.
When Jackie Gleason did the whining bully routine, it was for laughs. With Trump, just grating cringe. Oh, Jayne Meadows, where are you now?
Line of the night: “I take full responsibility. It’s not my fault...”
Trump didn't seriously prep for the debate. He relies on his constant gish galloping, word salad talking style as he has from the earliest days of his 2016 campaign. Despite the GOP's hopes that he would pivot to being presidential, he hasn't, he won't and, indeed, he can't. What he has done is to drag the standard of the presidency down well past the previous low levels of George W. Bush, Warren G. Harding or James Buchanan.
Joe Biden is not a great orator and never will be one. If he does get elected and doesn't' get de-elected by the SCOTUS, he will be forced to become more than the mediocre Democrat that he mostly has been throughout his career because the urgency of these times and the Democratic Party will force him to be.
"He was trying to sound presidential! I wonder who told him to do that." I wonder who convinced him. My money's on Ivanka.
We have a bad problem.
Reading your description, I wonder for the first time how much of what Trump says is rooted not just in a bullshitter's not caring what he says, but also in a bored rich kid's not ever being interested in what other people are saying so it all comes out to him as a melange of stuff that he can then theink positively into something he can use.