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Sep 25, 2024
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SteveB's avatar

Yes, I wish more people understood this. The obvious contradictions are a demonstration of power: "I won't be held back by your silly demands for consistency!" Likewise, the use of words to mean whatever you want, "Words won't be the boss o' me!" and lies which are completely obvious lies, "Sure, you know I'm lying, I want you to know I'm lying, now what're you gonna DO about it, huh?"

Cheez Whiz's avatar

What they all share is the use of the power of the State to eliminate dissent and criticism of the State, meaning the people who embody and run the State. What they do with that power is almost beside the point for them, as long as it enhances the glory and wealth of the State, meaning them. Empire, sure. Colonies, why not? Mystic bullshit to dazzle the rubes and placate a fetish of Dear Leader? I love it, especially if its in the summer. Fascism is a hostile takeover by hedge fund managers to boost year-over-year profits and score a sweet bonus or 3.

JT's avatar

Amen, brother.

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

… is the most sampled drum break in musical history.

Manqueman's avatar

Despite all the free time on my hands, I've neglected (or chose not) to ascertain the actual definition of fascism. More: I'm copping out and leave the issue as an anti-democratic state--whether in form or just function--that has, like, a siamese twin, symbiotic relationship with capitalists. A circle jerk, if I may. Not an orthodox definition IIRC but works for me.

Anyway vis a vis the masses: Not sure at all the word is relevant or useful in any way (no matter how defined, of course). Every descriptions of fascist policies, at least superficial definitions. Of course if there's a huge problem involving illegal immigrants, of course the problem should be addressed and said persons sent back home. But that's one huge if there. But on the surface, where the mainstream news media leave it as a rule, Trump's policy doesn't look as bad as it of course is. The core is being (willfully) ignored by our exceptional media; they choose to accept there's a problem.

I'm losing my focus and thread but there's that circle jerk: reporters' bosses' preferred candidate claims there's a problem and offers an extreme, vulgar solution and press chooses not to criticize or critique it thereby legitimatizing it.

So calling Donnie fash works for us parlor trick (h/t H Kurtzman) nerds but the little people? Please. Does the word have any meaning for them? Do they even remember anything about the Nazis beyond the fact that they were the big bads in WWII?

Personally, my preference is maybe just calling them scum. Simpler word with universal understanding. Fascist opens a can of worms requiring talmudic-level study.

Claire März's avatar

More accurately "the big bads in WWII movies".

Manqueman's avatar

If you want to go history-wise, then the Nazis were far more the USSR's enemy than ours.

Too, the Nazis are, in the minds of the little people, the big bads. Of course, Wall Street always had a thing for them which apparently never fully died out.

As for the movies, histories of wars and the US are insanely detached from reality, relying on the barest minimum of facts, if that.

Blueb4sunrise's avatar

@KanekoaTheGreat

JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon: "If you do not control the borders, you are going to destroy our country...

Now that they are sending migrants into New York... all my super liberal friends realize what a problem it is."

Migrants. In New York!!!!

SteveB's avatar

Why, I hear there's this one neighborhood in New York City where things have gotten so out of control you wouldn't even know you were in America! Have to admit that I do like the Moo-Shu Pork, though.

Manqueman's avatar

Migrants! Like the pusher of booze/pimp, Her Drumpf with the awful genes! Or like the Scot girl who came to America to nail a monied husband.

Clearly, letting bad people into the nation is a very old problem even if we're a nation of immigrants...

billcinsd's avatar

Plus, now your Mayor has been indicted so there is no one left to resist the dusky hoards

Worriedman's avatar

Fascist is Italian for "belligerent asshole"

Manqueman's avatar

Even I know that’s not the correct definition but it works for me 😉

It’s wrong yet universal…

Pere Ubu's avatar

Defining "fascism" can be a slippery thing, primarily because they're political chameleons. If a policy gets them results now, they'll advocate it, and then toss it when it gets inconvenient. Nazis are different from Italian Fascisti are different from Falangists are different from Atomwaffen.

Manqueman's avatar

The money empowers the thugs to serve the monied people yet more.

The nuts and bolts stuff is whatever works in the moment. No more principle than that.

DrBDH's avatar

Storm the legislature = Nazis.

Cheez Whiz's avatar

Fascism has a notoriously hazy definition, even among those who study it as a career. This was a central point in many blogs and stories during the reign of the Orange King, when people were trying to make sense of what the fuck is he even doing, and fascist was a good first approximation. The Boss is cutting to the chase here, its Nazi shit pure and simple. People are assuming that label has a similar weight as "racist", but I dunno. There's only a handful of people who lived through that shitshow, and Republicans are simply ignoring the word. Since they are only talking to their base, and their base doesn't concern itself with abstractions like Nazi or fascist, its up to our savior, The Independent Voter, to come to our rescue. Again.

Manqueman's avatar

Just read it! I’m sold on Eco’s definition. He nails the case.

SundayStyle's avatar

This is another banger, Roy.

Got to love the guy who said Trump wasn’t a fascist although he was “using fascist political tactics.” So I guess if I lift that guy’s wallet, he’ll accuse me of using the tactics of larceny, but he won’t call me a thief, right? These Milquetoasts and hair-splitters can fuck all the way off.

And yeah, some people won’t acknowledge the truth until they’ve been thrown in the back of a van. It’s a variation of leopards/faces: “I never thought all those fascist political tactics would produce a fascist police state.”

Pat Fitzgerald's avatar

Roberts Rules of Hitler is a keeper. I can picture the morning editorial meeting: “Should we capitalize nazi when we’re just talking about Trump’s young fans on 8chan?”

SundayStyle's avatar

"Who brought their German to English dictionary?"

billcinsd's avatar

I speak jive, does that count?

SnarkiNorski's avatar

What constitutes a quorum for our Nazi debate? And did we get a second for the motion on the floor? No? A motion to table the discussion for later? Seconded? All in favor? Motion carried. Next order of business: Is protesting literal genocide rude and upsetting?

Pere Ubu's avatar

Yeah, Donnie not only wants to deport the nieblankes "flooding America" (I can barely get to the garage for all the migrants standing in the driveway!*) but wants to evict the foreign students involved in the college protests.

* I mistyped "farage" here - an apt mistake.

Bern's avatar

I wondered why Nigel got a tingle...

SteveB's avatar

Oh, I'm makin' plans for Nigel. Specifically, the plan is to drop him and JD Vance off in downtown Port Au Prince without any money or identification and see if they can find their way home.

Bern's avatar

And Prince, dead all these years, unable to help...

billcinsd's avatar

Sitting their in their Safe European Home. Way to go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xgwXkULDCs

Derelict's avatar

For way too many people, it simply CAN'T be fascism unless there are goose-stepping goons in Hugo Boss uniforms parading through the streets and giving stiff-arm salutes.

And even then, they might characterize it as celebrating heritage, not hate.

SundayStyle's avatar

Yep. Far too many people sputter "but...but this is AMERICA!" and think the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and the lyrics of the national anthem operate like some kind of impenetrable force field. They don't, they're just words on paper. It requires the efforts of people to enforce those principles and keep them alive.

Claire März's avatar

And it helps if you read and understand the words, but that's a lot of egghead stuff.

SundayStyle's avatar

I am once again begging every American to watch the 2001 film "Conspiracy" starring Ken Branagh and Colin Firth. The law -- the words on paper -- can be changed in one meeting when there are complicit judges who will give those new laws the nod.

Claire März's avatar

I can name at least two of the judges.

Fluttbucker's avatar

The German version of the film is called "The Wannsee Conference". Germans being studious record keepers, much of the dialogue is straight from the minutes of the actual meeting.

I watched it again a while back and was struck by the sheer banality of the administrative planning for mass murder. (Boy, did Ms. Arendt get that one right!)

The most interesting choice the producers made was the character of the stenographer. A pert, efficient gal-Friday who occasionally interrupts the proceedings to ask for clarification. At one point, one of the more earthy Nazis goes on an obscenity-laden tirade, much to the displeasure of Reinhard Heydrich. One does not use such language in the presence of a young lady!

SteveB's avatar

Said Trump's supporters: "I do Nazi, but I Wannsee."

Pere Ubu's avatar

One has to be principled when one is planning the most efficient mass murder, after all.

Pere Ubu's avatar

Oddly enough, if you actually read stuff about fascism, you see the parallels! Wild.

SnarkiNorski's avatar

The Guardrails(TM) will hold. And then we shall all to brunch.

SundayStyle's avatar

[whispers] don't look now but at least half of the guardrails are already gone and they are busily working on disassembling the rest.

SnarkiNorski's avatar

[Dick Durbin forlornly averts his eyes]

Claire März's avatar

Susan Collins says its regrettable, but they've learned their lesson.

SteveB's avatar

I know, that horrible woman Kamala Harris is threatening to dismantle the greatest protection for democracy the world has ever known, I speak, of course, of the filibuster.

SundayStyle's avatar

[Recoils in horror] not the Holy Grail!

billcinsd's avatar

As it is a Senate Rule, she has no ability to do anything but recommend to the Senators to dismantle

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

Also it’s helpful for them to forget that the Nuremberg Laws were literally taken from Jim Crow legislation, Zyklon-B was first used on Latine border crossers, & the America First movement sprung up around the same time as Nazi takeover.

Bern's avatar

Coincidentally, NONE of the above are jack-booted. Jackboots are for show – wingtips are for go.

And in that vein, there's Mussolini's old standby definition. Fascism is Corporatism.

gromet's avatar

Also have seen more than a few "Person in the street" interviews where our fellow Americans say it might be time to suspend the Constitution -- just for four years, so we can really "solve our problems."

SteveB's avatar

Sure, what we need is a strongman, who can solve all our problems (and especially the brown-skinned ones) unfettered by rules or laws or the need to vote on stuff.

There should be a name for that sort of thing.

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

They say this about white supremacists as well. Not bald & in red bracers? No Klan robes? Well then you must be “racially-tinged.”

Perhaps I could suggest, “Served with a racist reduction & facist drizzle, as well as roast new potatoes.”

SundayStyle's avatar

It's not white supremacy without the Klan robes, it's only sparkling authoritarianism with a soupçon of racially-charged rhetoric.

SteveB's avatar

Don't forget to add a twist of Economic Anxiety!

redoubtagain's avatar

Served on Klean-Klan Linen table settings.

Bern's avatar

Hearted, but I was hoping this place would not degrade into a recipe blog...

I HATE to cook.

RB Korbet's avatar

As Roy said, when they're in the back of a police van maybe they'll say, hey, I think there's fascism afoot.

Pere Ubu's avatar

Fine people on both sides.

DrBDH's avatar

I’d say machine gun toting troops in camo on city streets is just as Nazi as jackboots. To those who think that’s swell, think about what kind of haircuts collaborators got in France in 1945. Pick a side.

ssdd's avatar

Oh my heavens! (Flaps hands rapidly in front of face) You are so *shrill* Roy Edroso! Why, you’re almost as bad as that nasty Clinton woman with her deplorables and all. If you can’t learn to speak civilly I will have to insist on seeing a manager!

Worriedman's avatar

I went with Nasty, Noxious or Nincompoop. Oh and Numbnuts.

Do the "B word" next !

When you got some guy named Dylan writing for some online news source (excuse me - "media conglomerate")with some made up word (Politico), or some Latin word(vox) or some real word that the spelled wrong ( "semafor"? What the fuck?) as a name most likely the article is bullshit.

Especially if the media conglomerate has ever had anything to do with that hack Ezra Klein.

Instead of tattoos I think they'll try and chip the migrants like they do dogs. Leon Musk will get the contract for 6,200 bucks per person. That puts the bill for 20 million migrants somewhere north of 124 billion dollars and that ain't cheese! Coincidentally, the Super PAC Leon setup for this election will pay Melania $450,000 a month to give a monthly speech to new hires at Tesla.

Claire März's avatar

What else could he have meant with the "serial numbers"? I'm sure every legal immigrant has some kind of file, which is no doubt identified by a number already. Wonder where Melania's serial number would go.

SteveB's avatar

Good point, the legal immigrants would be MUCH more easy to round up than the illegal ones. And, given that Tubby is profoundly lazy and wants fast, fast results with minimal effort, that's what he'd do.

redoubtagain's avatar

Yup. In lieu of a social security number there is a Tax Identification Number (TIN). Which means that legal immigrants ARE PAYING TAXES. Not that this matters to Nazis.

billcinsd's avatar

Only if the employer is following the law. Which seems unlikely since they are hiring people that are not supposed to work

Bern's avatar

That ^^ is the sort of wondering I try mightily to avoid, but I'm glad SOMEBODY does it...

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

You know on their social platforms, when described as Nazis, these Nazis complain that others are calling them “the N-word.” Which makes me want to park a 1953 Oldsmobile right between their upper & lower palate.

Bern's avatar

Damn! Another Hitler reference!

DrBDH's avatar

My brother taught me The Stroll to that song.

redoubtagain's avatar

I always refer to "Semafor" as translated from Russian, because that's likely where the money comes from.

Pere Ubu's avatar

I would have thought Elmo would have charged 14,880 per person.

Jack Cuffari's avatar

They are indeed. And they need to be treated as such.

rfc's avatar

[Wow — I just posted Roy's essay on FB and it was booted off in less than a minute!] But I will do it again —

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

using the hashtag “whitesupremacy” on TikTok will get the offending language auto-removed.

Roy Edroso's avatar

REBID gets results! Let me try.

SnarkiNorski's avatar

II heard that slogan read in the voice of John Madden holding up a tube of athlete’s foot cream.

Roy Edroso's avatar

Ha ha they blocked me too. What a bunch of squares!

rfc's avatar

Well, I'll be damned: I objected and FB restored Roy's essay! https://www.facebook.com/robin.cisne/

SteveB's avatar

Now you take back all those mean things you said about Mr. Zuckerberg.

Bern's avatar

Hmmm...tricky that...

SundayStyle's avatar

[Marvel supervillain voice] NEVER!

billcinsd's avatar

You're getting all Meta

Lee Rudolph's avatar

"though he didn’t say whether these would be tattooed on their arms."

Under the New Regime, the numbers will be laser-printed on their retinas.

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

And this policy will be pushed by the exact same people who rave about the government forcing everybody to wear the Number of the Beast in order to buy or sell at market.

Claire März's avatar

Everyone will be happy if we let the states decide!

gromet's avatar

I will never understand how the Let the States Decide crowd believes that is more responsive than the federal Let the Individuals Decide policy... ohhhh unless it isn't about anything except being the little tinpot dictator of all the pretty girls.

SteveB's avatar

Ah, but your Social Security number is used to give you government BENEFITS. See the difference? As long as you're HURTING people, number away!

Bern's avatar

Don't tell them, but those numbers? They're Arabic!

Bern's avatar

Before the Arabs, I knew nothing. Since the Arabs, I know zero.

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

Correction: You didn't know nothing

Bern's avatar

I sit* corrected.

*Woulda filed a brief on my behalf but the court ruled I don't have standing...whaddya gonna do, amiright?

billcinsd's avatar

I thought Bern was doing Sergeant Schulze

Claire März's avatar

I ask the NYT et al: is Fascist Wannabe so much better?

Bern's avatar

Not bad, actually. These Junior 88's aspire higher.

SteveB's avatar

Do we usually draw a big moral distinction between "rapist" and "attempted rapist"?

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

I say, good sir, this is editorializing at its most intemperate, recklessly raising the temperature of the water in which all of us frogs are boiling.

PS) It chaps my taint that Fash rhetoric has made most commentators & pols accept the Nazi premise that undocumented immigrants don’t deserve social or legal protections. “Of course I want to protect _legal_ immigration,” they’ll say, desperate to have you believe they’re _reasonable_ for cripe’s sake. As if crossing some shitty border makes one the worst kind of criminal, surely deserving to be brutalized, separated from one’s family (still going on, y’know), exploited, trafficked, what have you. “Of course I don’t condone Herr President Trump’s new initiative of hanging the naked, dead bodies of border crossers on the outside of His Glorious Border Wall as deterrent. I prefer burying the slaughtered in unmarked mass graves near the wall, which as all onlookers will note, is a _much more_ moderate position,” these liberal chud-fucks will say in the near future.

Pere Ubu's avatar

Is this before or after they demand landmining the border?

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

Liberals would demand the crocodiles in the border moat be vaccinated against COVID...

Bern's avatar

I let in a few, but they got uppity so I demoated them...

billcinsd's avatar

The US Constitution does not distinguish between citizens and non-citizens with respect to their rights

Grouchy Medievalist's avatar

Tell that to the Fascists, or the liberals who have already ceded so much ground to them...

DrBDH's avatar

Or Native Americans

k_kamath's avatar

MSNBC's Alex Wagner was in Michigan talking with idiots about the election. Younger men were leaning toward Trump. Union guys. These are low info voters. If I were not a dispassionate scientist, I would deport them all.

Since I am neither dispassionate nor a scientist, except when watching cable news, I shall take no such extreme action.

On the other hand, no one seems to have a problem or even question calling Democrats commies. Let's talk about that.

Red baiting and anticommunism are a religion still in the US. I call BS.

SteveB's avatar

Did they say THE ECONOMY?

SteveB's avatar

I don't have a fucking clue when it comes to football, but if I was forced to rank all the positions on a football team in order of importance, I guess I'd start with "Quarterback"? Yeah, nobody can fault me for that choice, whew, I almost looked stupid there.

Bern's avatar

I dunno...the guy who lets the QB stick two hands up his butt must be worth a sympathy vote...

SteveB's avatar

Ah, but what's he called? I wouldn't want to give away that I don't know anything beyond "Quarterback." Nope, I'm staying with the safe choice here.

SteveB's avatar

I'm told there used to be a saying among business types, "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." Updating to today's polling: "Nobody ever got looked-at funny for saying 'The Economy'"

billcinsd's avatar

The butt hands guy is the Center

Bern's avatar

He who cannot hold.

SnarkiNorski's avatar

Parody song: Rush Limbaugh sings “I’m a Nazi”

https://youtu.be/gq7nxvAPS-c?feature=shared

This just in: Rush Limbaugh is still dead. /SNL

Geo X's avatar

I first saw that when Bartcop linked to it back in the day. Boy, remember Bartcop? Those were the days.

DrBDH's avatar

Tequila and Shirley Manson (Garbage).

SnarkiNorski's avatar

I heard Randi Rhodes play it on her show.

Pere Ubu's avatar

I used to have all the lyrics memorized!

Rodger French's avatar

Word.

Lutheran Liar's avatar

Most excellent piece, Mr. Edroso

Roy Edroso's avatar

From you, that's gold! Thanks.